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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Edena_of_Neith" data-source="post: 258391" data-attributes="member: 2020">In 2nd edition Dungeons and Dragons, the Arcane Age Setting set the benchmark for casting high level spells.  In the Arcane Age Setting, one had to be 20th level to cast 10th level spells.  One had to be 35th level to cast 11th level spells.  One had to be 40th level to cast 12th level spells.  A look at 11th level magic shows that one needed to be 15 levels higher to cast such spells than the next spell level down, 10th level.  Using that as an extrapolation to the (apparently) graduated spell progression of 3rd edition, it could be surmised that a graduated progression would require a 50th level caster for 12th level spells, a 65th level caster for 13th level spells, an 80th level caster for 14th level spells, and a 95th level caster for 15th level spells.  Again, this assumes a graduated approach like that of 3rd edition.  Karsus's Avatar, the 12th level spell from Netheril, does not fit into this graduated system at all.  There is no way whatsoever to duplicate Karsus's Avatar in 3rd edition.  For the sake of translation, I will drop the 40th level 12th level requirement from the Arcane Age system, along with that interpretation of 12th level spells.  Thus, we have a system of:  20th level is required to cast 10th level spells  35th level is required to cast 11th level spells  50th level is required to cast 12th level spells  65th level is required to cast 13rd level spells  80th level is required to cast 14th level spells  95th level is required to cast 15th level spells  And this assumes a graduated increase in spell power, from 10th to 11th level, from 11th to 12th level, from 12th to 13rd level, etc.  - - -  In 3rd edition, according to the Epic Level Handbook, Epic Spells are 10th level spells.    However, all Epic Spells are not created equal.  Epic Spells all have DCs.  The higher the DC, the more difficult to cast the spell.  The higher the DC, the more powerful the spell - or, the more versatile, the fewer the drawbacks, and all the other things that would signify greater comparative level according to the standard system of 1st through 9th level spells.  Thus, the higher the Epic Spell DC, the higher the spell's effective level.  - - -  In 3rd edition, all Epic Spells are 10th level.  But what level would they be, if they were 2nd edition spells, using the system created above?  Here is my translation:  A 3rd edition wizard of 35th level (straight wizard) could have 38 ranks in Spellcraft.  Since it is his or her Spellcraft that is rolled against the Epic Spell DC, he or she has a bonus of 38 to the roll.  In addition, he or she rolls a d20.  The range is 1 to 20 for this roll.  He or she has a 50/50 chance of rolling an 11 or higher.  38 + 11 = 49.  Thus, a 3rd edition wizard of 35th level has a 50/50 chance of matching the roll of 49 needed to cast an Epic Spell of DC 49.  Therefore, I conclude that any Epic Spell with a DC of 49 or higher is an 11th level spell.  The basis is simple:  a mage of 35th level (ala the 2nd edition system way above) has a 50/50 chance of casting this spell.  A mage above 35th level has a better than 50/50 chance, and a mage below 35th level has a worse than 50/50 chance.  This assumes the wizard took as many ranks in spellcraft as possible, which is a semi-reasonable conclusion for a single-classed wizard.  Thus, Epic Spells with a DC of 10 to 48 are 10th level spells, in 2nd edition.  Epic Spells with a DC of 49 to 63 are 11th level spells.  Epic Spells with a DC of 64 to 78 are 12th level spells.  Epic Spells with a DC of 79 to 93 are 13th level spells.  Epic Spells with a DC of 94 to 108 are 14th level spells.  Epic Spells with a DC of 109 to 123 are 15th level spells.  Etc.  Is this a reasonable translation?  I am attempting this translation for the simple sake of being able to say:  Not all 3rd edition Epic Spells are created equal.  For in 2nd edition, given the translation, this (particular) Epic Spell would have been X level.  X level, based on a reasonable extrapolation from the 2nd edition Arcane Age Setting.  However, is this a reasonable extrapolation or translation?</blockquote>

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