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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Empirate" data-source="post: 5862012" data-attributes="member: 78958">Seriously? You mean the words you just typed in there?Let me rebuff your post:Game destroying... hardly, for a 9th level spell that does 90 damage.'Supplements' refers to the PHB here? I mean, the only 9th level spells cited were from the PHB. We're not talking about anything but PHB spells and one new homebrew spell here. Don't bring up the (often refuted, but that's beside the point) 'power creep by way of too many books' thing.'Most powerful spells in the game'... yeah. 9th level, right? Also known as the highest spell level there is? Why shouldn't another 9th level spell be balanced against these? Don't you balance 2nd level spells against other, popular, 2nd level spells? Or 5th level spells against other 5th level spells? Do you really think you're doing game balance a favor if you DON'T do it that way? If your benchmark are the most worthless, never memorized, never learned, most craptastic spells a level has to offer, what does that have to do with game balance in the game as it's actually played?'General rules set out for magic'... where? Point me to the page. You have already admitted that some of the most iconic, long-standing favorites among 9th level spells (which are right there in the PHB) go out and break the rules of the game into a hundred itty bitty splinters. Where do the rules you cited apply, then?Also, the 'must be able to resist' thing is ridiculous if you consider Forcecage (no save, no SR, you're screwed), Summon spells (those critters are just THERE now), Glitterdust (try hiding), True Seeing (hide from that!), Reverse Gravity (no save, no SR), Prismatic anything (roll seven times? Might as well be no save, no SR), Quench (no save, no SR, no attack roll to heavily damage fire creatures - situational, I know, but it's a lot of spell levels lower!), Pass Without Trace (track that!), Web (made save? no helpy!), Wall of X, Summon Swarm/Insect Plague, Sleet Storm (no save, no SR), Black Tentacles (no save, no SR), Acid Fog (no save, no SR)...All in the PHB, btw.'Rebalancing against most powerful spells'... where is the power creep in that? If I can choose from among Grease, Mage Armor and Unseen Servant, I won't be picking Unseen Servant - but how does choosing Grease murder game balance? How does balancing a new 1st level spell against Grease  cause power creep? Similarly, how does balancing a new 9th level spell against Gate, Time Stop, and Shapechange cause power creep.The way I see it, providing new options for a game is only helpful if those options represent a viable choice. I.e., new options that fall behind the general power curve are not options in that they are not optional: choosing them is always a worse choice that choosing the options the game was already providing in the first place. You have added effectively nothing to the game then.If you were playing chess, but instead of your Queen you had the option of choosing another Rook, would you do so? No. So adding that option doesn't further the game in the slightest. If, on the other hand, you had the option of replacing one Bishop with a third Knight, you might consider it. Knights, while about as powerful Bishops (in fact, slightly less so), move differently, so this is indeed an option.If you don't balance new options against powerful options that are already available (i.e., don't balance Ray of Light against Gate, Shapechange, Time Stop), the new options will be disregarded. This is not power creep.</blockquote>

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