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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Vraille Darkfang" data-source="post: 2696755" data-attributes="member: 16989">If that's how the rules work, fine.  I think you are more of an expert on the RAW than I am, so I'll take your word for it.I still say claiming Cure spells as Touch Attack spells is silly.I find the idea that if you go to the trouble to heft an unconcious foe onto your person, you get an AoO, but that if you leave him lie at your feet you get nothing.There are rules.  Then there is common sense.  The 2 do not always meet.Better example.Lets say Bless Weapon (a Touch Spell).Instead of the Downed Foe, you are standing over a Greatsword (in your square).  The evil minion casts his Bless Weapon, and goes over to the Greatsword.  Is THAT spell considered a Unarmed "Armed Strike"?  After all, the You aren't even a valid target, yet it is a spell with a Object Touched.  Or, since it specifies objects, you shouldn't worry.Or Magic Fang.  That's touch, right?  Is magic Fang an Unarmed 'Armed' Strike?Simple.I don't really care what the rules say.  They are just there to aid you, not straightjacket you.  You can tell me the Rules Claim Harmless Spells can be used as 'Armed' Strikes all you want, I call it Shenanigins.By the rules, even if you were a 18th level Cleric with Max Ranks in Spellcraft & KNEW it was a Cure Lights Wounds spell that could NEVER, EVER, DO NO HARM WHATSOEVER TO YOU, you still have to treat it as a threat (by the RAW).  That's silly, I'm not going to do it.At this point I think people are trying to ABUSE the rules rather USE the rules.I'm still haven't reread all about Sunder & AoO yet, but I read all about Touch Spells.  If you want to get down to quoting rules & page number (which I may have started, I admit), it says the reasoning behind a Unarmed 'Armed' Touch attack not drawing an AoO, is that it is a "Credible Threat".I say a Spell Touch Attack that fails to be a "Credible Threat" is not an 'Armed Strike'.I think you might be right.  At this point, and in the D&D Rules Forum (as opposed to House Rules Forum), my only point of contention (from a RAW standpoint), is the 'Credible Threat' Blurb under "Unarmed 'Armed' Attacks.   While a 1st level fight might not know a CLW from a Touch of Death spell, a 5th level Cleric would.</blockquote>

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