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Message: <blockquote data-quote="takyris" data-source="post: 3024803" data-attributes="member: 5171">Emphasis mine.Also, "the character rather than the game" is a false distinction. For some people, the character is the game. For other people, the tactics are the game. I'm going to go out on a limb and guess that you're one of the latter."My world's a place where every dungeon has at least one instakill trap well beyond the save-capability of the best guy in the party, and the trap can't be detected with the abilities that were put into the game specifically for detecting traps!"With "mistake" in this instance being read as "Had the rogue take 20 and determined that there was no danger from the lever, then pulled it, and was then forced into a roll-a-20-or-die situaation."The first sentence is the one that works for me, provided your clause on the end is actually sincere. Some players want to play a tactical game in which every darn lever is a five-minute event involving casting two-thirds of your daily allotment of spells, in which either the rules as written for trapfinding are ignored or the trap is beyond the capability of the party's designated trapfinder, and in which the result of taking reasonable precautions is roll-a-20-or-die. Good luck to them.As stated earlier, I'm not against traps. I'm not against impossible-at-that-level-to-spot traps. I'm not against massively damaging traps. I'm not even against instakill traps. I'm against impossible-at-that-level-to-spot instakill-traps. Making the trap detectable but not disarmable, or leaving the trap undetectable but lowering the damage, would be fine.</blockquote>

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