Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ourph" data-source="post: 3026434" data-attributes="member: 20239">No, actually, all of the examples I listed above are processes of thinking that lead to a decision to pull the lever.  None of them have anything to do with the discussion of fairness.  They're all reasons people have given in this thread as to why it would make sense for their characters to pull the lever and all of them require some level of metagame consideration.  A lot of the discussion has centered around the debate over whether pulling the lever without taking any precautions is a smart move or a dumb move on the part of both the players and the characters.  The "unfair" camp has repeated numerous times that part of their position is based on the idea that the PCs did the "right thing" and were punished for it, while the "fair" camp has asserted that the PCs did the "wrong thing" and suffered the inevitable consequences.  The assertion that the PCs did the "right thing" is based in large part on the metagame thinking I gave examples of above, all of which are addressing the question of "do we pull the lever" not "was the outcome fair".No matter how many times you repeat this I'm not going to agree.  To you, the opposite conclusion (that the lever is suspicious) requires metagame thinking.  You're so caught up in that conclusion that you fail to see that your POV requires just as much metagame thinking.  Your interpretations of the situation are based on the expectations you have about the game you are playing.  Those expectations have nothing to do with your character's perspective and everything to do with your experience and perception of how a typical game of D&D works.  Yes, my point of view is based on the same type of thinking.  Therefore, you can't critique one side or the other in this discussion based on the fact that it relies on metagame thinking, because that analysis applies to both.  The idea that a simple check for traps means that the lever is safe or that a lever in this context is "commonplace" is totally based on your knowledge that you are playing the game and on your specific perception of the inherent rules of that game (either written or unwritten).  Things like "taking 20" and "level appropriate challenges", which are, without question, part of the metagame.If you can't see that the examples I listed in the above post are examples of PC's actions being determined by the player's knowledge that this is a game (and even more to the point, that it's a certain type of game which the player has preconceived notions about) I honestly don't know how to respond.  Because from my perspective all of the examples unquestionably fit that definition.   :\</blockquote>

Verification