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Message: <blockquote data-quote="delericho" data-source="post: 3026788" data-attributes="member: 22424">For 'likely' read 'almost certain'. Except by blind stupid luck there is no way for the party to escape this trap without losing at least one party member.That's fair enough, and probably a sensible course of action... except that in that situation it's likely that there is a secret door in such a room, which might be worth investigating. In any event, not entering the room leads to survival of the trap.Tough. If the rogue knew how they were connected he would also know enough to disarm the trap. If pressed, all you're getting is "there's some sort of mystical connection. You've never seen it before, but it's powerful, deadly, and beyond your ability to remove." Frankly, informing the Rogue that it's beyond his skill is excessively generous anyway. If I were using the trap in a real game, you'd get "it's trapped", and that's it.Seems rather like overkill, but appropriate given the situation. In that circumstance then, yes, you'd have enough information to know what's going on.That one's easy. Nystul's Magical Aura can be used to mask the magical aura entirely (this use was originally in Nystul's Undetectable Aura in 3.0, and rolled into the one spell in 3.5). There's a caster level check, but given the nature of this trap, the caster level is extremely high, so my example assumed it was failed.And, any BBEG capable but insane enough to build a trap like this is also capable but insane enough to also put a permanent undetectable aura on his trap.Very true. But a search of the other door and the lever would not. And you're assuming that such a wand or spell is available and used.As soon as the Monk dies, the game's up. If the trap is fair, then it must be possible for the party to escape without fatalities through clever play. Can you manage that?(Incidentally, I don't believe the trap is fair. In fact, it's intentionally constructed not to be. As far as I can see, the only way to escape the room without fatalities is through dumb luck.As I said above, once the monk dies, the game's up.Meanwhile, the player of the monk has long since packed his bags, and left. Shortly thereafter, he's enjoying a game with a DM who provides sane challenges.As far as I can see, for the entire party to survive this trap they need to do one of three things:1) Not enter the room. This will either be due to dumb luck (we've completed our mission, let's just go), natural suspicion (although that could go either way - sure, you may well suspect the lever is trapped, but would you automatically assume it was trapped such that the rogue couldn't neutralise it?), or having the rogue check the entry doorway for traps (which may be dumb luck, or may be SOP).2) Having determined that the lever and secret door are trapped, also check the door you came in for traps. I've seen no replies anywhere in this thread suggesting that that should be SOP, so I'm going to put that down to dumb luck. Of course, you get that information for free if using a wand of trap detection or a find traps spell, but is that the first recourse for a party with a rogue to do the job? And is it something that would be done once the rogue has confirmed that there is, in fact, a trap? Why use magic to detect traps that you now know are there?3) Pull the lever. But, since the consensus on the 'the OP trap is fair' crowd is that strange levers should not be pulled as default, I have to assume that that's not SOP, and so put it down to dumb luck.I don't see how a group can survive this trap without fatalities through good play, except by not entering the room. And I see no real reason not to enter the room (except that the party already has the McGuffin. So, what about the case where they find the room before finding the McGuffin?)That was, of course, my intent. I don't believe that the OP trap was fair, I believe that this one is more fair than the OP, since it can be detected (although not disarmed), and can be disabled very easily, and I absolutely don't believe that the trap I suggested was fair.I would walk away from a game featuring this trap, or the one in the OP.</blockquote>

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