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Message: <blockquote data-quote="DonTadow" data-source="post: 3034030" data-attributes="member: 22622">I am all for a good puzzle. Kamikazea and I have been on the oppositte side of this issue before and we still are. But during one discussion we had it was brought up that the puzzle should be at least fair.The way I see puzzles in games is that the actual puzzle I give the player is probably not as decryptic as the one that it is the game. Afterall characters with an intelligence of 18 would probably solve the easy puzzles found or written in most dand d games. The puzzles provided should be easy enough for a high school student to solve. Nascrag, the d and d fun tournament at gencon, does a great job of writing up puzzles like this, where the actual puzzle you solve is only a mijnor invisoioning of what is really there. My problem with the eample is that there was no reasonable evidence that this was a puzzle. Plus the puzzle seems ot want to circumvent the rules of d and d. No matter what you do, whether you're like Kami and don't like puzzles or like me and love them, you should never have a puzzle blow off the rules of d and d.  If there's a trap there it should have a CR, a Trigger and a DC for the thief to find it that is within the design of the trap. If its a simple glypgh trap it should be realitively fair to find. A good search may not reveal that its a trap but the dm should provide a good descriptoin of the lever that may lead to to figuring out that it could e a trap. Buti f all the DM does is say "nope no traps" he's diserviced his game by being undescriptive in waht the thief did find.</blockquote>

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