Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3034471" data-attributes="member: 18280">Although PapersAndPaychecks may have said "What it leads to, inevitably, is the expectation that all obstables can be overcome by rolling d20's." I imagine that it's pretty reasonable to assume that he meant that it leads to the expectation that all obstacles can be overcome by the PCs by rolling d20s.  His statement that "I think that's detrimental to the fun of the game" seems to be far more principle than details, to me.  YMMV.You are incorrect in your base assumption, sir.  Rule 0 does, indeed, allow the DM to produce a trap that cannot be detected by a rogue with a sufficient Search modifier.  Moreover, so would creative use of magic.  However, the simple expedient of setting the DC beyond the PC rogue's ability to detect it via Search accomplishes the same thing for all practical purposes.  That Harry the Hypothetical Wonder Rogue can detect the trap is immaterial.  If the rogue has a maximum bonus of, say, +8 to his check, then a Search DC 29 trap is undetectable by that rogue at that time.  The DM presumably knows what the rogue's bonuses are, and thus can make any trap undetectable that she desires.Which leads again into my earlier post.  Neither the players nor their characters should automatically assume that a trap does not exist simply because they can't detect it.If the trap were simply a square on the floor somewhere, then there would be no in-character warning.  It is not.  It is a big honking lever.  You don't have to Search for the trap mechanism -- there it is!  You have to activate it yourself to make it work.  Searching for a trap using mundane means reveals nothing, but does that actually mean it's safe to pull the lever?To me, the fact that it's a big lever that you have to pull removes completely "no in-character warning" and ameliorates almost completely the high Search DC.  After those problems are removed, if you still need to worry about the save DC you're more than a bit naive.  See previous post.Me, I don't generally use these types of traps, but I have fallen victim to them from time to time.  Does that make them unfair?  Not at all.RC</blockquote>

Verification