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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3034587" data-attributes="member: 18280">I agree that there is a conflict of base assumptions.  The base assumptions were brought up previously:"Is it safe to assume that any trap we encounter can be detected?" Not an assumption I'd make, and certainly not an assumption that a being living in an rpg world would make (unless those beings assume also that the world is devised for their benefit).  (emphasis added)"Is it safe to assume that any trap we set off can be survived?" Again, the answer must be No. Either, from a role-playing standpoint, we remember that the world is not designed for our survival, or, from a meta-gaming standpoint, we remember that a certain percentage of encounters are supposed to be overwhelming.Now, obviously, you might not include traps as encounters, or you might not include those encounters into the percentage that are overwhelming.  But, in terms of fairness, the base guidelines in the rules assume a certain number of encounters that should be avoided.  You can, of course, claim that these are always combat encounters, and never obvious pull-the-lever-type traps or magical wards that you cannot bypass, but this assumes again a world built for the convenience of the PCs, and resultantly defines as unfair anything which is not built for the convenience of the PCs.Remember, we are talking about fair, not ideal.Is it fair that the PCs can assume that any trap in an area which seems reasonably obviously trapped is detectable by said PCs?Is it fair that the PCs can assume that any trap they encounter, if they set it off, is liable to be survived by the person setting it off?I would say that neither of these assumptions is fair to make, and that claiming something is unfair because those assumptions fail is, itself, grossly unfair.  Despite delericho's postings, the game has ample means to create traps that your particular group of PCs cannot find by Searching.  Your experience may lead you to believe that levers are unlikely to be dangerous within the context of a particular world, DM, or subset of DMs, but it would be unwise to assume the same of every game you might ever become involved in.If I was trying to prevent people from stealing my Doodad of Awesome Might, I could well throw in a final gambit to catch the lucky but foolish.  If my PC got caught by such a trap (and, oh, I have been in the past) I would accept it as my fault rather than the DM's.  Of course, I don't expect the DM to mollycoddle me or hold my hand, either.....  <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" /></blockquote>

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