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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 3034641" data-attributes="member: 12037">Okay, you got me there.But, back on topic, I just can't think its fair to have a trap that the PCs can't detect that will kill the PCs on any roll but a 20. In my mind there are limits to what a DM should do, and this goes beyond that line.For example, if the PCs in question didn't take a 20 (ie the rogue just casually glanced the lever over) before declaring it wasn't trapped, but he could have detected it if he had taken some time, then yes, I'd probably call it fair.If the PCs were 15th levle or higher, I would also consider the trap fair. Beause the consequences of a death trap are different at that level.Way back in the thread I posted one of my death trapped doors. That's the kind of death traps I generally like to use against PCs.</blockquote>