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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3035816" data-attributes="member: 18280">There is a big difference between (A) not informing players about each specific thing that might occur/effect that might exist that trumps skill use and (B) being a complete jerk.  Again, You must tell the players what their characters should reasonably know about the world, no more and no less.  The Emperor of Ptolomy might hate bluggyfruits, and that might affect your Diplomacy skill use if you offer some to him, but that isn't something that the villagers from Plundering Falls should know without travel and/or investigation.The logical result of claiming that deliberately putting something in the game that you know nobody in the group can find or has a chance to find makes you a "complete jerk" is that no DC can ever exceed what the PCs can make by Taking 20...or by Taking 10 if you know that the situation will not allow them to Take 20...or by Taking 1 if you know that the situation will not allow them to Take 10.  No challenge should ever be beyond the PCs.  The PCs should never return to a place where they once were and discover something they did not know at the time.In short, the growth of the world, of the PCs, all verisimilitude, and all requirement for the players (as opposed to the characters) to use their judgment should be thrown out of the window.  The game is about the PCs.  It should be structured to meet their needs.Except, of course, that the game isn't about the PCs.It is about the players...all of the players, including the DM.  And while, on the surface, the players might want an unending string of ego-gratifying victories, deep down knowing that you cannot fail makes it all hollow.  A good DM challenges not only the characters, but the players as well.  A good DM makes the best of those moments of ego gratification earned so that the players know that they have value, and can take pride in their accomplishments.That the PCs must trigger the trap in the example is not a foregone conclusion.  That they cannot Search to determine it is a trap is true, but they should have other means to determine whether or not they should pull the lever, and the players are given ample reason to use those means.  Divination spells exist for a reason, folks, and they are actually the most potent spells in the game.  Fail to use them at your own peril.If the DM's world follows any kind of logic, the lever should not automatically be assumed to open the secret door (why hide the door but make the lever so obvious?), and the players should be suspicious.  If the DM's world does not follow any kind of logic, then they should automatically be suspicious of the lever.  In neither case is this the IPUs that Kamikaze Midget wants them to be.  The whole set-up screams "Trap"!Imagine that the poll had read:  "You find yourself in the back corner of the dungeon.  There is a big, obvious lever and your Searching reveals a secret door.  You cannot find a way to open the secret door.  Your rogue Searches the lever for traps, and finds none.  You have what you came into the dungeon for.  Do you pull the lever?"  Options given are Yes, No, and Maybe (explain below).  How many people do you think would say "Yes"?RC</blockquote>

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