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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3039337" data-attributes="member: 18280">IF the bad guys with the McGuffin didn't build the dungeon, THEN they migrated to it.  This assumes a reasonably large number of bad guys, such as a splinter of an orc tribe.  It is not unreasonable to assume that said orcs had some form of adept, witchdoctor, or (un)holy person with them.  There is not requirement for a PC class character, nor really any requirement for the character to be over 1st level.IF one of our hypothetical orcs pulled the lever, THEN they presumably learned it was bad mojo soon enough.  However, we may also assume that these orcs (used to dwelling in such places) were capable of following the line of reasoning that I and others demonstrated.  Oddly enough, there are some who would have us believe that the bad guys are wise enough and clever enough to use traps in all kinds of fiendish ways, but neither wise nor clever enough to leave a known trap alone.IF this investigation took place, THEN it could well have taken place long enough ago that the ashes mingled with the general dust of the place.  Or, even, it might be true that the orcs collected the ash both (a) to preserve the trap for unwary adventurers that get so far -- "I know where there's a secret door that leads to untold riches!  Come this way!" -- and/or (b) for proper disposal of the dead.  Although PCs seem content to leave thier corpses strewn about (unless they are planning on restoring them to life), that isn't the norm for intelligent beings.  Somewhere, some orc has a sack with Grandpa's ashes (which the PCs earlier mistook for a magical dust, and are still wearing in their hair).Again, I'd hate to walk barefoot in your house, or try to make a midnight snack.  Mousetraps are left in the middle of oft-used walkways and the pantry doors are electrified.  The alternative (putting the mousetraps where mice are likely to go, but you are not; using the mousetraps to entice and kill mice instead of simply trying to defend the food) is apparently a foreign concept.We are also setting aside, apparently, the fact of the secret door.  Since this room seems to be a portal from one complex to another (or one area to another), it could be what is beyond the secret door (if anything) that the trap protects.Again, no evidence whatsoever that the trap is illogical, and the only issue is fairness.  I would say that a trap which catches over half the intended victims is, perforce of its effectiveness, logical.  Moreover, crying on one hand that the trap is ineffective because of placement or components, while crying on the other hand that the trap is unfair because it is too effective, is self-contradictory and throws both premises (ineffective and unfair) out, at least insofar as the reasons given go.RC</blockquote>

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