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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 3045343" data-attributes="member: 12037">Ahh, see, I don't agree that it can be judged objectively fair. I agree with those criterium on a subjective level for judging fairness of my own game. In other words, for me to think something is fair, it would definately have to conform to those rules.I think the most objective way to look at fairness has to look at an individual group. I think that the easiest way to indicate fairness is to determine the likelihood of a trap being bypassed. And, that will vary from group to group.For example, in my group, there is almost a 100% chance that someone would die to this trap. That means that the trap is unfair by my standards. If one of those criterium were changed, say the rogue could find the trap present with a Take 20, then a PC will not definately die from the trap, and I can once again look at it to see if it is fair.Groups will also have different levels of what they'll accept. Some might accept an 80% chance of PC death, while others would accept a 20% chance of PC death on traps. So, I do think you really have to take the group into consideration. A trap that has a low chance of killing a PC in your game would be fair, but place that same trap in my game for a 100% PC death chance, and suddenly it doesn't look so fair.</blockquote>