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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Raven Crowking" data-source="post: 3047656" data-attributes="member: 18280">Ah, how funny.  You truncated the definitions in order to remove where it is possible for a trap to be funny.  Woo hoo for you!"Free from bias, dishonesty, or injustice."  Not exactly the same thing as free from dishonesty alone.That something has an objective quality A, and that others would claim that it instead has the objectively converse quality B, should come as no surprise to anyone.  It is certainly not contradictory.There are three possibilities:(1)  The person finding the objectively fair trap unfair is actually reacting to an internal bias, such as being upset that his monk died.  Or a false sense of entitlement.  (2)  The objectively fair trap is part of a larger complex which is objectively unfair.(3)  A combination of the above two.Certainly you must have had experiences wherein one person claimed something was unfair when it was patently obvious that it was the person making the claim who was being unfair and/or unreasonable.  This is not something that happens only on rare occasions; it would be the work of a lifetime to catalogue all of the frivilous lawsuits going on right now, let alone those which are over and those that are yet to be.In addition, there are many ways the OP could be modified to make it unfair:Not unfair.  In fact, no evidence that the rogue even Took 20.  Unfair because of dishonesty and bias.  The DM told you that there was no trap, while knowing that there was a trap.  Had the DM said, "You search and find no trap" this would be different.  It would also be a lot closer to the uncertainty that the rogue would be feeling.(Note:  There is a difference between "dishonesty of belief" and actual dishonesty.  If you are calling the troglodytes "lizard men" and the DM picks up on that and begins using the same terminology, he is not being dishonest...even though you may be unpleasantly surprised.  The DM is not required to tell you that a room with an invisible occupant is not empty.  However, and especially in matters of life and death, the DM has an obligation to be clear and reasonably precise.  This is not a problem in the OP.)Unfair.  Violates social contract of group (DM does not have legitimate authority).Unfair.  The encounter is unjust.  There is, simply put, no way to win.Unfair.  The encounter is both biased and unjust.  Interesting.  You are basically putting the sum total of the reasons that the OP's encounter should be considered unfair into one encounter?   <img src="http://www.enworld.org/forum/images/smilies/laugh.png"  class="smilie" loading="lazy" alt=":lol:" title="Laughing    :lol:" data-shortname=":lol:" />  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" />   Or is it just another straw man?RC</blockquote>

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