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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ThirdWizard" data-source="post: 3047805" data-attributes="member: 12037">Here's an encounter. The PCs have obtained the McGuffin. They come across a doorway and if anyone walks through it forward then they save or die. If they walk through it backward then they bypass the trap. There are no clues to how to walk through it. The trap search DC is too high for the rogue in the party but exists. The person in the group with the highest save can only make it on a 20.Fair or unfair?AFAIC this is basically the same trap as the OP's. If the PCs do some arbitrary thing that will be obvious to anyone who is used to arbitrary traps (like levers that must be pulled by ropes) but to most people it will just kill them. They also didn't have to walk through the door. Rolling a 19 on a save and checking for traps are neither bad luck nor bungling. In fact, the party did everything right but still died to the trap. This is due to some arbitrary idea the DM had about pulling the lever with a rope or just leaving it alone. Or are we now assuming that it wasn't a death trap and that the monk was low on hp, and suffered because he didn't get healed after the last battle?No, a party at full power with all their spells and all the options available to them would still have a fatality to this encounter because there was no recourse to react to the situation. The monk died, and there wasn't a thing they could do to prevent it short of knowing that the lever was trapped and how to bypass it.This isn't like a combat where if they roll low for a while things can go bad. I know that. PCs die. It's unavoidable. But, that isn't the case here.You started the whole "There's an encounter, is it fair or unfair?" Then said that you consider it fair and proceded to claim that because I said I needed more information that I was somehow saying it was unfair. And, just in case you disagree:The only way to interpriet this is that you believe that your null encounter was fair. So if your null encounter is fair, why isn't null situation fair as well? Or are only your null situations fair? How can you even pretend to judge the null situation at all? But, you did. And, you have to defend that claim or give it up for the absurd statement that it is.</blockquote>

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