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<blockquote data-quote="kenjib" data-source="post: 65260" data-attributes="member: 530">I wanted to create a class that covered both non-magical woodsmen as well as bounty hunters - basically all warriors that rely on stealth and cunning rather than brute force to take down their enemies.&nbsp; Does the following class work or should I make changes?&nbsp; I know that there are lots of things out there like this already, but I haven't kept up unfortunately.It's mostly the ranger with the following modifications.Removed:&nbsp; Spells, concentration, medium armor proficiency, two weapon fighting.Added:&nbsp; Gather info, some knowledge skills, and sense motive, surprise attack which is a weakened form of sneak attack (does not work with flanking and follows a reduced progression)This seems like a fair trade to me.&nbsp; The hunter can sneak up on prey using skills and then get the jump on them, taking advantage of both favored enemy and surprise attack in their ambush to do large amounts of damage in the first assault and hopefully eliminate foes quickly.&nbsp; If stuck in a protracted toe to toe battle with a fighter, however, they are in trouble.&nbsp; Hit and run is the goal, which should be fairly easy against slow, heavily armored targets.Does the class seem balanced against both the ranger and fighter?&nbsp; Is surprise attack too powerful in this incarnation of the class?&nbsp; Does the class seem to achieve what it is supposed to achieve?Hit Die:&nbsp; d10&nbsp; &nbsp; Class SkillsAnimal Empathy (Cha, exclusive skill), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int)), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), and Wilderness Lore (Wis).&nbsp; &nbsp; Skill Points at 1st Level:&nbsp; (4 + Int modifier) X 4.&nbsp; &nbsp; Skill Points at Each Additional Level:&nbsp; 4 + Int modifier.BaB as fightersaves as fighterspecials:1:&nbsp; Track, 1st favored enemy2:&nbsp; Surprise Attack +1d63:4:5:&nbsp; 2nd favored enemy, surprise Attack +2d66:7:8:&nbsp; Surprise Attack +3d69:10:&nbsp; 3rd favored enemy11:&nbsp; Surprise Attack +4d612:13:14:&nbsp; Surprise Attack +5d615:&nbsp; 4th favored enemy16:17:&nbsp; Surprise Attack +6d618:19:20:&nbsp; 5th favored enemy, surprise Attack +7d6Class FeaturesAll of the following are class features of the hunter.&nbsp; &nbsp; Weapon and Armor Proficiency:&nbsp; Hunters are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields.&nbsp; &nbsp; Track:&nbsp; A hunter gains track as a bonus feat.&nbsp; &nbsp; Favored Enemy: As per the ranger but note that I am also introducing a new feat called &quot;avenger&quot; which allows a ranger to take her own race as favored enemy.&nbsp; This can be done at first level too.&nbsp; &nbsp; Surprise Attack:&nbsp; As per the rogue sneak attack ability but the surprise attack ability does not apply when the defender is flanked, only when she loses her dex bonus to AC. Surprise attack damage stacks with sneak attack damage when both are applicable.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="kenjib, post: 65260, member: 530"] I wanted to create a class that covered both non-magical woodsmen as well as bounty hunters - basically all warriors that rely on stealth and cunning rather than brute force to take down their enemies. Does the following class work or should I make changes? I know that there are lots of things out there like this already, but I haven't kept up unfortunately. It's mostly the ranger with the following modifications. Removed: Spells, concentration, medium armor proficiency, two weapon fighting. Added: Gather info, some knowledge skills, and sense motive, surprise attack which is a weakened form of sneak attack (does not work with flanking and follows a reduced progression) This seems like a fair trade to me. The hunter can sneak up on prey using skills and then get the jump on them, taking advantage of both favored enemy and surprise attack in their ambush to do large amounts of damage in the first assault and hopefully eliminate foes quickly. If stuck in a protracted toe to toe battle with a fighter, however, they are in trouble. Hit and run is the goal, which should be fairly easy against slow, heavily armored targets. Does the class seem balanced against both the ranger and fighter? Is surprise attack too powerful in this incarnation of the class? Does the class seem to achieve what it is supposed to achieve? Hit Die: d10 Class Skills Animal Empathy (Cha, exclusive skill), Climb (Str), Craft (Int), Gather Information (Cha), Handle Animal (Cha), Heal (Wis), Hide (Dex), Intuit Direction (Wis), Jump (Str), Knowledge (Geography) (Int), Knowledge (Local) (Int), Knowledge (Nature) (Int), Listen (Wis), Move Silently (Dex), Profession (Wis), Ride (Dex), Search (Int)), Sense Motive (Wis), Spot (Wis), Swim (Str), Use Rope (Dex), and Wilderness Lore (Wis). Skill Points at 1st Level: (4 + Int modifier) X 4. Skill Points at Each Additional Level: 4 + Int modifier. BaB as fighter saves as fighter specials: 1: Track, 1st favored enemy 2: Surprise Attack +1d6 3: 4: 5: 2nd favored enemy, surprise Attack +2d6 6: 7: 8: Surprise Attack +3d6 9: 10: 3rd favored enemy 11: Surprise Attack +4d6 12: 13: 14: Surprise Attack +5d6 15: 4th favored enemy 16: 17: Surprise Attack +6d6 18: 19: 20: 5th favored enemy, surprise Attack +7d6 Class Features All of the following are class features of the hunter. Weapon and Armor Proficiency: Hunters are proficient with all simple and martial weapons, light armor, and shields. Track: A hunter gains track as a bonus feat. Favored Enemy: As per the ranger but note that I am also introducing a new feat called "avenger" which allows a ranger to take her own race as favored enemy. This can be done at first level too. Surprise Attack: As per the rogue sneak attack ability but the surprise attack ability does not apply when the defender is flanked, only when she loses her dex bonus to AC. Surprise attack damage stacks with sneak attack damage when both are applicable. [/QUOTE]

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