Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is This Odd?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Blue" data-source="post: 7637134" data-attributes="member: 20564"><p>I'm going to work this from both sides.</p><p></p><p>Should a player have access at the table to the PHB for information about their character? I think we can all say this is yes.</p><p></p><p>Should a player have access at the table to the adventure the DM is running? I think that we'll also get the consensus the answer is no.</p><p></p><p>So we have valid cases on both sides, and a lot of gray in the middle about player vs. DM information.</p><p></p><p>Should a player have as access at the table to the PHB to look up a spell a foe cast on their rogue? Very light gray - some DMs may not like it for some spells as it gives things away, but I'm firmly of the idea that the social contract says the PHB is a player book and they can know anything in it. (As players - their characters may not.) The PHB even includes common beasts that the player's should know, like low level wildshapes, their horses or pony's, familiars, etc.</p><p></p><p>Now, there are some valid points in the MM (and DMG) for players either explicitly or with DM permission. For example, summons, wildshape, and polymorph need to be able to reference. But by the same token the PHB reprints some information in Appendix D to keep this to a minimum. I feel that the intent here is that the MM is not a general player reference at the table, but may have specific needs.</p><p></p><p>On a personal side though ... I've been playing for the majority of my life. Even when I separate player knowledge from character knowledge, I know that a troll regenerates, the hierarchy of giant toughness, dragon's by color. Claiming that newer players shouldn't be able to take a look seems to be pushing them away.</p><p></p><p>On the gripping hand, last year we had a medusa encounter, and there was a question about resolving it's gaze attack that the DM asked the players their thoughts on (it is a really bad save-or-suck), and from that we learned it had a range limit. And at least one player's character "just happened" to be just outside that limit for the rest of the combat. So not everyone is good at separating player and character knowledge and is removing the temptation to metagame in that way a good thing?</p><p></p><p>I'm not sure there is a universal answer about unfettered MM access. Personally I tend towards restricted use of anything but the PHB at tables I'm at. And as a player I have pre-printed out polymorhs or wildshapes or whatever so I don't need the book. But half of that is not having to stick it in my bag and carry it.</p><p></p><p>I am about to run a game for all D&D newbies and since they are on the same playing field I'm asking them not to read anything in the MM so they can experience it first-hand - but because they are the same level there's no system masters vs. new player issues going on.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Blue, post: 7637134, member: 20564"] I'm going to work this from both sides. Should a player have access at the table to the PHB for information about their character? I think we can all say this is yes. Should a player have access at the table to the adventure the DM is running? I think that we'll also get the consensus the answer is no. So we have valid cases on both sides, and a lot of gray in the middle about player vs. DM information. Should a player have as access at the table to the PHB to look up a spell a foe cast on their rogue? Very light gray - some DMs may not like it for some spells as it gives things away, but I'm firmly of the idea that the social contract says the PHB is a player book and they can know anything in it. (As players - their characters may not.) The PHB even includes common beasts that the player's should know, like low level wildshapes, their horses or pony's, familiars, etc. Now, there are some valid points in the MM (and DMG) for players either explicitly or with DM permission. For example, summons, wildshape, and polymorph need to be able to reference. But by the same token the PHB reprints some information in Appendix D to keep this to a minimum. I feel that the intent here is that the MM is not a general player reference at the table, but may have specific needs. On a personal side though ... I've been playing for the majority of my life. Even when I separate player knowledge from character knowledge, I know that a troll regenerates, the hierarchy of giant toughness, dragon's by color. Claiming that newer players shouldn't be able to take a look seems to be pushing them away. On the gripping hand, last year we had a medusa encounter, and there was a question about resolving it's gaze attack that the DM asked the players their thoughts on (it is a really bad save-or-suck), and from that we learned it had a range limit. And at least one player's character "just happened" to be just outside that limit for the rest of the combat. So not everyone is good at separating player and character knowledge and is removing the temptation to metagame in that way a good thing? I'm not sure there is a universal answer about unfettered MM access. Personally I tend towards restricted use of anything but the PHB at tables I'm at. And as a player I have pre-printed out polymorhs or wildshapes or whatever so I don't need the book. But half of that is not having to stick it in my bag and carry it. I am about to run a game for all D&D newbies and since they are on the same playing field I'm asking them not to read anything in the MM so they can experience it first-hand - but because they are the same level there's no system masters vs. new player issues going on. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
Is This Odd?
Top