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Message: <blockquote data-quote="4eHater" data-source="post: 4494920" data-attributes="member: 78103">The CR system of 3E was never meant to be exact science. It's a mere guideline. Personally, I believe the CR is just about right. If you realize the power a group of four 16th-level characters possess and can accomplish, this creature is just the right challenge as long as it's the only creature they'll be fighting. Especially since at such a level, the PCs have an easier time escaping such a foe and buffing themselves up later against it. I'd say a group of four 16th-level PCs with at least 75% of their resources intact can still take this on. At those levels, potions of neutralize poison or the party's healer possessing the spell or magic items to neutralize poison is common. Lesser restoration magic is also common. As long as the fighter continues to attack this creature, the group would only need to worry about healing just the warrior. Heck, a touch of idiocy can wipe this out easily, dropping it's 5 Intelligence straight down to 0 in one spell (assuming the SR is overcome, but at +16 andonly SR 25, easy chance).Now if you min-max this creature (such as the suggested Draconomicon feats I've heard here), then it'll obviously be at a CR much higher than 16. As is the case with anything you min-max.I've had hands on experience with a group of four 13th-level characters that can take this on: Human Paladin 6/Fighter 2/Cavalier 5 with an awakened phrenic dire wolf mount, a Human Cleric 12/Divine Disciple 1, an Aasimar Monk 12, and a Moon Elf Psychic Warrior 12/Ancestral Avenger 1 played in the City of the Spider Queen adventure. They were wiping the floor with nearly every creature they came upon thanks to the way they chose and combined their abilities, feats, and magic/psionics.If the team works well together, a group of four 16th-level characters shouldn't have much problem with this beast you concocted.</blockquote>

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