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<blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 1783899" data-attributes="member: 9002">I don't really have a case, a cause or a bee in my bonnet.&nbsp; I'm honestly interested.We both agree allowing this on a bow or worse yet, arrows, is probably not the best thing.&nbsp; OK.&nbsp; Done. I was looking at the effect of this ability if it was restricted to melee weapons (surely that's allowed, no?).Question:&nbsp; is it balanced when placed on melee weapons?My answer:&nbsp; yes.Your objections:&nbsp; Use a wand of &quot;align weapon.&quot;&nbsp; As I said, I think this is a pretty sub-optimal solution, given it requires a cleric or whatever to run over to the fighter, if in range, touch the weapon, align it, and then let the fighter run over and attack.&nbsp; That's using a very valuable cleric to cast a 2nd level spell, instead of X, Y, or Z.&nbsp; That's very suboptimal, and if you have to do that to make this enchantment work, it helps to balance it out.I'm mostly talking about penetrating &quot;good.&quot;&nbsp; Obviously you can have all kinds of backup silver, adamantine, etc. weapon, and not be stupid about it.&nbsp; But the fact is, nearly all high SR monsters have DR good/X, except dragons.The weapon enchantment is too expensive to be used at levels &lt;15, really, for the benefits, and (to repeat) once a wizard or druid gets shapechange, just do that stuff instead of casting a &quot;defeat SR first&quot; spell. Or other no-SR spells.Yes, you can use save-or-die SR spells if the dragon has its SR dropped.&nbsp; At the levels we are talking about, I'm honestly not worried about the dragon so much as the poor fighter who has to wade into combat and survive a round to do a full attack the following round.?&nbsp; If a spell can be brutal that does not allow SR, why not just use that against high SR foes? Doesn't the presence of these spells simply make the Sr-lowering weapon &quot;yet another way to do the same thing?&quot;&nbsp; Hey joe, bash that dragon a few times until you drop it's SR, if you survive.&nbsp; I want to try this &quot;KILL HIM NOW&quot; spell.&nbsp; Eh, forget it.&nbsp; I'll just Shapechange, you probably will survive that better anyhow.I honestly thought I had a pretty good analysis of when such a weapon would be effective, and it's not very often, thus making me rule it &quot;balanced&quot; or at least not &quot;broken.&quot;Why don't you, instead of simply saying I don't have an argument, explain how this weapon enchantment would make a, for example, party &lt;15 cakewalk over a foe that overwise would be incredibly tough?&nbsp; Or heck, even one &gt;15.&nbsp; To repeat, I won't be mad if you change my mind at all.&nbsp; I am asking you to do it, but I can't change my mind if you don't offer anythnig.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="two, post: 1783899, member: 9002"] I don't really have a case, a cause or a bee in my bonnet. I'm honestly interested. We both agree allowing this on a bow or worse yet, arrows, is probably not the best thing. OK. Done. I was looking at the effect of this ability if it was restricted to melee weapons (surely that's allowed, no?). Question: is it balanced when placed on melee weapons? My answer: yes. Your objections: Use a wand of "align weapon." As I said, I think this is a pretty sub-optimal solution, given it requires a cleric or whatever to run over to the fighter, if in range, touch the weapon, align it, and then let the fighter run over and attack. That's using a very valuable cleric to cast a 2nd level spell, instead of X, Y, or Z. That's very suboptimal, and if you have to do that to make this enchantment work, it helps to balance it out. I'm mostly talking about penetrating "good." Obviously you can have all kinds of backup silver, adamantine, etc. weapon, and not be stupid about it. But the fact is, nearly all high SR monsters have DR good/X, except dragons. The weapon enchantment is too expensive to be used at levels <15, really, for the benefits, and (to repeat) once a wizard or druid gets shapechange, just do that stuff instead of casting a "defeat SR first" spell. Or other no-SR spells. Yes, you can use save-or-die SR spells if the dragon has its SR dropped. At the levels we are talking about, I'm honestly not worried about the dragon so much as the poor fighter who has to wade into combat and survive a round to do a full attack the following round. ? If a spell can be brutal that does not allow SR, why not just use that against high SR foes? Doesn't the presence of these spells simply make the Sr-lowering weapon "yet another way to do the same thing?" Hey joe, bash that dragon a few times until you drop it's SR, if you survive. I want to try this "KILL HIM NOW" spell. Eh, forget it. I'll just Shapechange, you probably will survive that better anyhow. I honestly thought I had a pretty good analysis of when such a weapon would be effective, and it's not very often, thus making me rule it "balanced" or at least not "broken." Why don't you, instead of simply saying I don't have an argument, explain how this weapon enchantment would make a, for example, party <15 cakewalk over a foe that overwise would be incredibly tough? Or heck, even one >15. To repeat, I won't be mad if you change my mind at all. I am asking you to do it, but I can't change my mind if you don't offer anythnig. [/QUOTE]

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