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<blockquote data-quote="Rothe" data-source="post: 3700765" data-attributes="member: 39813">I think you hit the nail on the head, there needs to be a threat of loss/failure that means something to the PLAYERS but it doesn't need to be death.&nbsp; Without the risk of failure/loss success is not nearly so sweet or meaningful.&nbsp;&nbsp; That being said death is a great one which I always keep in my games, even though magic allows one to be brought back.&nbsp; It adds to versimiltude and is a major loss (xp and gp wise).&nbsp;&nbsp; Further, without the threat of death there is no threat of TPK, TPK is real scary to my players, one PC death is bad, two PC deaths always results in retreat before things get out of control.On the &quot;death&quot; threat I also count near death situations.&nbsp; That is, you can save the PC but if you don't act this round (usually with magic,potions etc.) they will be dead the next one.&nbsp; They instill fear and often force the other PCs to defend the fallen comrade so they can be &quot;healed.&quot;What I don't like is when metagame concerns cause GMs to shy away from death, player's don't want to spend time rolling up another character, they don't want to sit &quot;idle&quot; when their charcter is dead, it just &quot;sucks&quot;, etc.&nbsp; These certainly can detract from fun, but I' d rather addreess them with other metagame approaches, assume a NPC, have more than one PC per player, let the player play the monsters, etc.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Rothe, post: 3700765, member: 39813"] I think you hit the nail on the head, there needs to be a threat of loss/failure that means something to the PLAYERS but it doesn't need to be death. Without the risk of failure/loss success is not nearly so sweet or meaningful. That being said death is a great one which I always keep in my games, even though magic allows one to be brought back. It adds to versimiltude and is a major loss (xp and gp wise). Further, without the threat of death there is no threat of TPK, TPK is real scary to my players, one PC death is bad, two PC deaths always results in retreat before things get out of control. On the "death" threat I also count near death situations. That is, you can save the PC but if you don't act this round (usually with magic,potions etc.) they will be dead the next one. They instill fear and often force the other PCs to defend the fallen comrade so they can be "healed." What I don't like is when metagame concerns cause GMs to shy away from death, player's don't want to spend time rolling up another character, they don't want to sit "idle" when their charcter is dead, it just "sucks", etc. These certainly can detract from fun, but I' d rather addreess them with other metagame approaches, assume a NPC, have more than one PC per player, let the player play the monsters, etc. [/QUOTE]

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