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<blockquote data-quote="Glyfair" data-source="post: 3704103" data-attributes="member: 53">.As I've said many times, sure there is.&nbsp; It's just not death.Just off the top of my head:&nbsp; The red dragon swats the wizard away effortlessly and knocks him unconscious to talk with the rest of the party.&nbsp; When the wizard wakes up he has multiple serious wounds, broken bones, etc.&nbsp; He has reduced speed, reduced attack and a spell failure chance until he heals naturally or by high level magic.Then again, if appropriate there might be no major consequences.&nbsp; The GM feels that fits the wizards character and has the red dragon sitting there ignoring the wizard's attacks and laughing at him. Killing PCs for fun sounds too much like the killer DM style that most hate today.&nbsp; That may not have been meant like you say it, but that is what it sounds like.As for good dramatic story moments, you are right.&nbsp; This style doesn't take that away.&nbsp; Let's take an example I read in a recent thread.&nbsp; The player's high level character fell into lava and survived the damage.&nbsp; The player said &quot;That's stupid, of course I die.&quot;&nbsp; That works in this method.&nbsp; On the other hand, that character could just be immersed at the side of the lava and be seriously scarred and injured.&nbsp; It cements his fall to the dark side of the force after he surives, so he is both mentally and physically changed.&nbsp; That fits as well, and in most games takes the PC out of players hands, but still avoids death.The assumption many make here is that players will never choose death when &quot;not death&quot; is an option.&nbsp; That might be true in their game, but it's not true in all games.&nbsp; In fact, I think if they tried this style they might be surprised by their players.&nbsp; The lack of &quot;random death&quot; (meaning some random element decides whether there is death or survival, even just an attack roll) can change the player's perception of death.&nbsp; It no longer has a stigma of &quot;losing&quot; and can even gain a feel of &quot;winning.&quot;Then decide he dies instead of the other choices.&nbsp; If death &quot;feels right&quot; then choose it.Death isn't gone in this method, it's just a choice rather than something imposed.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Glyfair, post: 3704103, member: 53"] . As I've said many times, sure there is. It's just not death. Just off the top of my head: The red dragon swats the wizard away effortlessly and knocks him unconscious to talk with the rest of the party. When the wizard wakes up he has multiple serious wounds, broken bones, etc. He has reduced speed, reduced attack and a spell failure chance until he heals naturally or by high level magic. Then again, if appropriate there might be no major consequences. The GM feels that fits the wizards character and has the red dragon sitting there ignoring the wizard's attacks and laughing at him. Killing PCs for fun sounds too much like the killer DM style that most hate today. That may not have been meant like you say it, but that is what it sounds like. As for good dramatic story moments, you are right. This style doesn't take that away. Let's take an example I read in a recent thread. The player's high level character fell into lava and survived the damage. The player said "That's stupid, of course I die." That works in this method. On the other hand, that character could just be immersed at the side of the lava and be seriously scarred and injured. It cements his fall to the dark side of the force after he surives, so he is both mentally and physically changed. That fits as well, and in most games takes the PC out of players hands, but still avoids death. The assumption many make here is that players will never choose death when "not death" is an option. That might be true in their game, but it's not true in all games. In fact, I think if they tried this style they might be surprised by their players. The lack of "random death" (meaning some random element decides whether there is death or survival, even just an attack roll) can change the player's perception of death. It no longer has a stigma of "losing" and can even gain a feel of "winning." Then decide he dies instead of the other choices. If death "feels right" then choose it. Death isn't gone in this method, it's just a choice rather than something imposed. [/QUOTE]

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