Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Next
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
Twitch
YouTube
Facebook (EN Publishing)
Facebook (EN World)
Twitter
Instagram
TikTok
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
The
VOIDRUNNER'S CODEX
is LIVE! Explore new worlds, fight oppressive empires, fend off fearsome aliens, and wield deadly psionics with this comprehensive boxed set expansion for 5E and A5E!
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Is Time Travel (going backwards) Possible?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Umbran" data-source="post: 6040882" data-attributes="member: 177"><p>Stop right there. </p><p></p><p>There is no evidence that normal matter itself causes expansion. My understanding is that stuff with positive energy density, like normal matter *cannot* be responsible for such expansion, and having normal matter actually cause expansion is, so far, apparently unnecessary to explain the phenomenon. Much of the rest of what you say is close enough to current models, but this one bit is contrary to the current observations.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Might as well say you have to have an explanation for the possibility that, while I see an apple on my desk, can pick it up, and bite it, there actually *isn't* an apple on my desk.</p><p></p><p>You don't have to have explanations for things that aren't observed. We observe an acceleration of the expansion. We have double checked those results, corroborated them with several different research groups using different methods. You don't have to explain how all of them might be wrong, until you see evidence they are, in fact, wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Yes, and that's exactly my point. You can make up an oodle of cute stories about how the Universe works. Data comes along and shows most of those stories are not consistent with reality. Eventually, you have enough data to prove that all but a very small number of those stories are not consistent with reality. This is where explanation and description become one and the same.</p><p></p><p>For "dark energy" we are nowhere near discarding most of the stories. We only have a small amount of relevant data. There are a ton of still possible explanations, but only a very small amount of description of what's happening. The two are by no means one and the same.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>No, it isn't. At least, it is no trickier than why anything has its one particular value. It is no trickier to explain this value than to explain the charge of the electron, for example. That there is something weird about it being small is a figment of human perspective and ideas of scale, to which the Universe is by no means beholden.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Not no effect. Just so small that it doesn't impact things.</p><p></p><p>Within a galaxy, the density of matter is very high, so gravitation dominates over those distances. The repulsion is there, but within a galaxy, the attraction of gravity is much stronger. So you have a strong pull, and a weak push, and the pull wins.</p><p></p><p>Out in the great vastness between galaxies, however, the normal matter is very, very thin, and the energy associated with the vacuum dominates, so the repulsion dominates.</p><p></p><p>There's nothing at all odd about this - take a bar magnet, and pick up a pin with it. Locally, electromagnetic forces are overcoming the force of gravity on that pin. Gravity is still there, but it isn't enough to pull the pin away from the magnet. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>We aren't talking about sudden, sharp transitions. There isn't some sharp wall at the edge of the galaxy, or something. There's just a slow, smooth transition from the area around galaxies out into the deeps.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Umbran, post: 6040882, member: 177"] Stop right there. There is no evidence that normal matter itself causes expansion. My understanding is that stuff with positive energy density, like normal matter *cannot* be responsible for such expansion, and having normal matter actually cause expansion is, so far, apparently unnecessary to explain the phenomenon. Much of the rest of what you say is close enough to current models, but this one bit is contrary to the current observations. Might as well say you have to have an explanation for the possibility that, while I see an apple on my desk, can pick it up, and bite it, there actually *isn't* an apple on my desk. You don't have to have explanations for things that aren't observed. We observe an acceleration of the expansion. We have double checked those results, corroborated them with several different research groups using different methods. You don't have to explain how all of them might be wrong, until you see evidence they are, in fact, wrong. Yes, and that's exactly my point. You can make up an oodle of cute stories about how the Universe works. Data comes along and shows most of those stories are not consistent with reality. Eventually, you have enough data to prove that all but a very small number of those stories are not consistent with reality. This is where explanation and description become one and the same. For "dark energy" we are nowhere near discarding most of the stories. We only have a small amount of relevant data. There are a ton of still possible explanations, but only a very small amount of description of what's happening. The two are by no means one and the same. No, it isn't. At least, it is no trickier than why anything has its one particular value. It is no trickier to explain this value than to explain the charge of the electron, for example. That there is something weird about it being small is a figment of human perspective and ideas of scale, to which the Universe is by no means beholden. Not no effect. Just so small that it doesn't impact things. Within a galaxy, the density of matter is very high, so gravitation dominates over those distances. The repulsion is there, but within a galaxy, the attraction of gravity is much stronger. So you have a strong pull, and a weak push, and the pull wins. Out in the great vastness between galaxies, however, the normal matter is very, very thin, and the energy associated with the vacuum dominates, so the repulsion dominates. There's nothing at all odd about this - take a bar magnet, and pick up a pin with it. Locally, electromagnetic forces are overcoming the force of gravity on that pin. Gravity is still there, but it isn't enough to pull the pin away from the magnet. We aren't talking about sudden, sharp transitions. There isn't some sharp wall at the edge of the galaxy, or something. There's just a slow, smooth transition from the area around galaxies out into the deeps. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Geek Talk & Media
Is Time Travel (going backwards) Possible?
Top