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Is TOMB OF HORRORS the Worst Adventure Of All Time?
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<blockquote data-quote="werecorpse" data-source="post: 7692764" data-attributes="member: 55491"><p>Much as I love the game I largely agree with John Wick.</p><p></p><p>Plenty of early d&d was roleplaying lite and problem solving heavy. ToH is a prime example - all the story stuff is meant to come from the DM not the players then they cast find the path, find traps, augury, commune, detect magic etc play send in the sheep, poke with 10' pole. If you do all this you should come out ok. If you don't and the DM plays the way the dungeon is written you die. My memory is that the tournament characters at the back of the dungeon can't defeat the final antagonist - so it's not about winning its about surviving longer than another party. It's all about the dungeon nothing for the characters to interact with.</p><p></p><p>Designing a dungeon to kill the players is child's play, not clever.</p><p></p><p>I dislike trap dungeons as I don't find continuous trap finding interesting, or particularly challenging (btw surely as soon as you touch to start to climb into a sphere of annihilation you are sucked in and annihilated - so that trap is typically bogus)</p><p></p><p>Gygax had some fantastic design skills, but from what I have read of his stuff and stories of his game play he made all the usual Gm mistakes - Gm v player, designing stuff which has as its purpose to "get arrogant players", playing favourites, being dismissive of others play styles etc.</p><p></p><p>ToH deserves its place in history as both a piece of fantastic design (mostly the artwork) and a cautionary tale (for DM's about design as much as for players).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="werecorpse, post: 7692764, member: 55491"] Much as I love the game I largely agree with John Wick. Plenty of early d&d was roleplaying lite and problem solving heavy. ToH is a prime example - all the story stuff is meant to come from the DM not the players then they cast find the path, find traps, augury, commune, detect magic etc play send in the sheep, poke with 10' pole. If you do all this you should come out ok. If you don't and the DM plays the way the dungeon is written you die. My memory is that the tournament characters at the back of the dungeon can't defeat the final antagonist - so it's not about winning its about surviving longer than another party. It's all about the dungeon nothing for the characters to interact with. Designing a dungeon to kill the players is child's play, not clever. I dislike trap dungeons as I don't find continuous trap finding interesting, or particularly challenging (btw surely as soon as you touch to start to climb into a sphere of annihilation you are sucked in and annihilated - so that trap is typically bogus) Gygax had some fantastic design skills, but from what I have read of his stuff and stories of his game play he made all the usual Gm mistakes - Gm v player, designing stuff which has as its purpose to "get arrogant players", playing favourites, being dismissive of others play styles etc. ToH deserves its place in history as both a piece of fantastic design (mostly the artwork) and a cautionary tale (for DM's about design as much as for players). [/QUOTE]
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Is TOMB OF HORRORS the Worst Adventure Of All Time?
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