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Message: <blockquote data-quote="pming" data-source="post: 7692777" data-attributes="member: 45197">Hiya!I pretty much disagree with all of what Mr.Wick wrote. I think there are some key points he isn't considering...First...yeah, what everyone else in this thread said; it's a module designed to kill PC's, and, more importantly, it is designed as a tournament module.Second, "old skool" (or "a regular AD&D game in 1980's") had the assumption that the players were the ones making the life-or-death decisions. It was the players who came up with how to detect a trap and defeat it. It was the players who were the prime determining factor of how successful a character was. Back in those days, I didn't say "Make a Spot Trap check, DC 22", I said "You see a wooden door, with iron bands...but the iron bands don't look nearly as rusty as the others you've seen. Almost like someone is trying to keep them clean". That's when the players start to use their own brains to detect and overcome any traps. The Key Thing Wick seems to be missing is this. His players obviously were either not up to the task, or were used to some other form of play style. As a player, when you see something in a deadly dungeon, you don't just jump in and hope you can roll good if you need to. The Tomb of Horrors was specifically designed to prey on that kind of "Freelick Maneuver" (re: "Freelick, the Fernetic of Glossamere jumps into the pit to gather up all the treasure! How much does Freelick get?"...kudos to any who know what movie I'm quoting that from). Throw things at it (iron spikes, water, oil, a rat/lizard/snake/small-animal, etc). Cast knowledge-type spells like Divination, Commune with Other Plane, or even Speak with Dead if one of your companions goes through and doesn't come back or scream or give any other indication. A party of 7 or 8 (that was the 'average' party size in those days), the clerics, druids, magic-users and illusionists should have a sack full of spell scrolls between them...they are all 10th to 14th level, after all! No small feat in 1e AD&D! That's one to two years of 8-hour weekly sessions...surely the players have learned how deadly stuff can be at those levels.Third, and I think this is the MOST TELLING reason why he lost friends... he stood up and laughed at them. The module didn't do that...he did. He gloated. He was a world-class 12 year old a-hole in that moment. His fiends just lost all their hard-earned (I'm assuming here...) characters because they didn't think it was a trap, or at least a trap that would kill them if they were stupid enough to let it. And he, in his 12 year old wisdom, felt it was appropriate to jump up from the table, point his finger and laugh heartily at his 'friends', straight in the face. THAT is why he lost friends...not the module.Anyway, thats my 2¢. I've also killed PC's...TPK's...with that module. Usually at the mouth, but I've also killed a "25th level paladin with 25 in all stats, with a two-handed holy avenger vorpal sword and a huge ancient gold dragon as his mount"...I think he made it in 20 or 30'. Followed the red path, fell in pit, failed save...died. That was rather funny to me...but I didn't jump up, point my finger at him, and laugh.^_^Paul L. Ming</blockquote>

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