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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7692854" data-attributes="member: 4937">I'm saying that thousands of groups over the years have enjoyed D&D as a competitive activity where they faced off against a proud RBDM and sought to try to defeat the challenges he threw their way.And yes, there is a decided power imbalance, and any DM worth his pizza can kill the PC's any time he wanted to just by being actually unfair rather than what is coddled noob would call unfair, but there is an art in bringing challenges that are just hard enough that it seems amazing when you get by them.  There is a beauty in good play from a skilled group of veterans where everything comes together and they overcome odds that anyone would think they really shouldn't.You can complain about ToH all you like, but the truth is that over the years lots of teams beat that module playing against DMs that weren't pulling any punches.   I can't say that, but then I was just 13 at the time.  But some groups have, and they ought to be rightly proud of such an accomplishment.  And it's trivially obvious that most had fun doing it.So yeah, you are basically going 'badwrongfun' here while ironically berating others for it.</blockquote>