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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 7692955" data-attributes="member: 4937">Which is just absurd, because while I am a great admirer of Ravenloft and would vote for it for "Best Adventure of All Times" the one big issue I do have with the module is that it is an absolute meat grinder that is in many ways far more lethal than Tomb of Horrors.Ravenloft gives suggested level guidelines that are probably too low for the difficulties presented, and is in the hands of a DM given to ego gaming probably even worse than Tomb of Horrors because Strahd can be treated as if he validates toying with the PC's unfairly.  If anything, I6 gets my vote for most difficult adventure of all time if played as written by a capable DM.  Sixth level characters just don't have a chance against a monster like Strahd who can drain energy levels (and there is nothing they can do to stop him), and easily retreat to regenerate before attacking say 10 minutes later.  They can't even hide, because he can scry them unfailingly, and he has enormous resources to bring to bear in terms of minions along with 10th level spellcasting abilities.  And the module absolutely wrecks a party for trying to retreat, so you can't even run away.  And traps?  While the traps aren't normally immediately lethal, they do split the party up so that Strahd can prey on them all the more easily.  Inevitably, players get split up, get lost, get isolated, and either die to vampire or find themselves being punished by one of the absolute lethal "you dared to run away?" devices.It's a slaughter, and played as written, it's not even a fun slaughter.  Getting I6 to play well requires enormous DM effort and surviving it requires extremely experienced players.   I've never run it except as a one shot because it is literally more dangerous than Tomb of Horrors.And there are some minor issues as well.  For example, the catacombs level has a lot in common with Tomb of Horrors save that unlike Tomb of Horrors it tends to create a lot of boring, pointless, and undirected play because it commits the cardinal sin of module design in being repetitious and symmetrical.  If 'pixel bitching' is bad in Tomb of Horrors, it's far worse in the catacombs of Ravenloft.UPDATE: The cynic in me just realized that this is perhaps not nearly as incoherent as it may seem once you realize that it is Wick doing to the voting.  Tomb of Horrors puts the DM in a very passive role of responding to PC actions.  If you are a DM given to ego gaming, the only satisfaction that Tomb of Horrors can provide is killing your PC off rather suddenly.  But Ravenloft all but openly validates an ego driven GM toying with and tormenting the players endlessly.  You've got a highly active god-like NPC that can do just about anything he likes, is basically unkillable if run well, has mind control powers, can strip the PC's of their ability to defend themselves, and lives in a giant maze like dungeon which is designed to control, steer, confuse, and ultimately drive PC's to despair without immediately killing them.  If you get your kicks off of controlling your players and are the sort of person that gets disgusted with a game once the players are able to gain some system mastery and begin steering play, then Ravenloft is practically an ego gaming DMs nirvana.  Taken in this light, it gives you this ultimate DM pet NPC that can literally force the PCs to do his bidding.  Why wouldn't a DM with a huge ego love this module?  By comparison, ToH gives the DM nothing to steer play with.</blockquote>

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