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Is Treasure and Magic Items Important To You?
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8291273" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>Actually I think you are both overlooking something [USER=6777737]@Bacon Bits[/USER] is right about atonement being overly restrictive. Thst kind of 3 item thing works ok if the game is mostly built for one shots and very brief campaigns unlikely to get more than 3 items... if you are unlikely to get more than 3 magic items due to either short campaign or assumed no magic items the three attune limit becomes pointless.</p><p></p><p>I didn't notice in his post until you brought up the Christmas tree thing. His magic items were sword of awakening, ring of protection, and amulet of health. Rwo amulets and two rings. Body slots of the past had limits of ons per slot with two ring slots precisely to put barriers between a character with several items each having differing affinities that target different areas and a character stacking a bunch of stuff with the same affinity to significantly bump their character beyond the power level of those items themselves</p><p></p><p>With the slot limits and slot affiliates covered it gets into what an amulet of protection did and bonus types. When I went to look up what bonus types it had back in 3.5 to go into details I was surprised that page 21 of the 3.5 dmg mentions the ring of protection specifically in</p><p>[spoiler="behind the curtain:stacking bonuses"]</p><p>BEHIND THE CURTAIN: STACKING BONUSES</p><p>Keeping track of the different types of bonuses a character gets from</p><p>different sources may seem like a real bother. There are good reasons</p><p>to do this, however.</p><p>Balance: The main reason to keep track of what stacks and what</p><p>doesn’t stack is to keep total bonuses from getting out of hand. If a</p><p>character wears a belt of giant Strength, it’s unbalancing to allow the</p><p>cleric to cast bull’s strength on her as well and allow both bonuses to</p><p>add up. Likewise, a character with mage armor, magic plate armor, a</p><p><em>ring </em><u><em>of protection</em></u>, and a divine favor spell would be unbalanced if all his</p><p>bonuses were cumulative. <strong>Stacking restrictions keep the game within</strong></p><p><strong>manageable limits, while still allowing characters to benefit from</strong></p><p><strong>multiple magic items.</strong> For instance, note that some of the items from</p><p>the previous example—the magic plate armor, the ring, and the divine</p><p>favor spell, for example—could work together, because they provide</p><p>bonuses of different types.</p><p>Consistency and Logic: The system of bonus types provides a way to</p><p>make sense out of what can work together and what can’t. At some</p><p>point, when adding types of protection together, a reasonable player</p><p>realizes that some protections are just redundant. This system logically</p><p>portrays how it all makes sense together.</p><p>Encouraging Good Play: Categorizing bonuses by type allows play-</p><p>ers to put together suites of effects that do work in conjunction in a</p><p>consistent manner—encouraging smart play rather than pile-it-on play.[/spoiler]</p><p>What an <a href="http://BEHIND THE CURTAIN: STACKING BONUSES Keeping track of the different types of bonuses a character gets from different sources may seem like a real bother. There are good reasons to do this, however. Balance: The main reason to keep track of what stacks and what doesn’t stack is to keep total bonuses from getting out of hand. If a character wears a belt of giant Strength, it’s unbalancing to allow the cleric to cast bull’s strength on her as well and allow both bonuses to add up. Likewise, a character with mage armor, magic plate armor, a ring of protection, and a divine favor spell would be unbalanced if all his bonuses were cumulative. Stacking restrictions keep the game within manageable limits, while still allowing characters to benefit from multiple magic items. For instance, note that some of the items from the previous example—the magic plate armor, the ring, and the divine favor spell, for example—could work together, because they provide bonuses of different types. Consistency and Logic: The system of bonus types provides a way to make sense out of what can work together and what can’t. At some point, when adding types of protection together, a reasonable player realizes that some protections are just redundant. This system logically portrays how it all makes sense together. Encouraging Good Play: Categorizing bonuses by type allows play- ers to put together suites of effects that do work in conjunction in a consistent manner—encouraging smart play rather than pile-it-on play." target="_blank">item of protection did</a> changed too. It used to be a +1 to +5 deflection bonus, which was gigantic since +n armor & shields had an enhancement bonus allowing the of protection item to stack. The <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/ring-of-protection" target="_blank">5e item of protection</a> by contrast gives +1 to ac and all saves. I was able to find a couple items & enhacements like the MiC githborn talisman & commander armor enhancement that added a +1 bonus to will saves but not one that added to <em>all</em> saves.... the 5e ring of protection might be something that needs to draw from the epic level handbook or some splatbook to craft, but it's certainly not going to be in the same price range as other rare 5e items like a +2 weapon or +1 armor would have been in the past when body slots & slot affinities were both in place.</p><p></p><p>All of that raises a question of 5e's design goals to crank magic items up so far while insisting that magic items are so optional that none of the system's math takes them being used into account. How the heck did wotc not foresee the problems created by cranking them up so igh & getting rid of so many safeguards they had?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8291273, member: 93670"] Actually I think you are both overlooking something [USER=6777737]@Bacon Bits[/USER] is right about atonement being overly restrictive. Thst kind of 3 item thing works ok if the game is mostly built for one shots and very brief campaigns unlikely to get more than 3 items... if you are unlikely to get more than 3 magic items due to either short campaign or assumed no magic items the three attune limit becomes pointless. I didn't notice in his post until you brought up the Christmas tree thing. His magic items were sword of awakening, ring of protection, and amulet of health. Rwo amulets and two rings. Body slots of the past had limits of ons per slot with two ring slots precisely to put barriers between a character with several items each having differing affinities that target different areas and a character stacking a bunch of stuff with the same affinity to significantly bump their character beyond the power level of those items themselves With the slot limits and slot affiliates covered it gets into what an amulet of protection did and bonus types. When I went to look up what bonus types it had back in 3.5 to go into details I was surprised that page 21 of the 3.5 dmg mentions the ring of protection specifically in [spoiler="behind the curtain:stacking bonuses"] BEHIND THE CURTAIN: STACKING BONUSES Keeping track of the different types of bonuses a character gets from different sources may seem like a real bother. There are good reasons to do this, however. Balance: The main reason to keep track of what stacks and what doesn’t stack is to keep total bonuses from getting out of hand. If a character wears a belt of giant Strength, it’s unbalancing to allow the cleric to cast bull’s strength on her as well and allow both bonuses to add up. Likewise, a character with mage armor, magic plate armor, a [I]ring [/I][U][I]of protection[/I][/U], and a divine favor spell would be unbalanced if all his bonuses were cumulative. [B]Stacking restrictions keep the game within manageable limits, while still allowing characters to benefit from multiple magic items.[/B] For instance, note that some of the items from the previous example—the magic plate armor, the ring, and the divine favor spell, for example—could work together, because they provide bonuses of different types. Consistency and Logic: The system of bonus types provides a way to make sense out of what can work together and what can’t. At some point, when adding types of protection together, a reasonable player realizes that some protections are just redundant. This system logically portrays how it all makes sense together. Encouraging Good Play: Categorizing bonuses by type allows play- ers to put together suites of effects that do work in conjunction in a consistent manner—encouraging smart play rather than pile-it-on play.[/spoiler] What an [URL='http://BEHIND THE CURTAIN: STACKING BONUSES Keeping track of the different types of bonuses a character gets from different sources may seem like a real bother. There are good reasons to do this, however. Balance: The main reason to keep track of what stacks and what doesn’t stack is to keep total bonuses from getting out of hand. If a character wears a belt of giant Strength, it’s unbalancing to allow the cleric to cast bull’s strength on her as well and allow both bonuses to add up. Likewise, a character with mage armor, magic plate armor, a ring of protection, and a divine favor spell would be unbalanced if all his bonuses were cumulative. Stacking restrictions keep the game within manageable limits, while still allowing characters to benefit from multiple magic items. For instance, note that some of the items from the previous example—the magic plate armor, the ring, and the divine favor spell, for example—could work together, because they provide bonuses of different types. Consistency and Logic: The system of bonus types provides a way to make sense out of what can work together and what can’t. At some point, when adding types of protection together, a reasonable player realizes that some protections are just redundant. This system logically portrays how it all makes sense together. Encouraging Good Play: Categorizing bonuses by type allows play- ers to put together suites of effects that do work in conjunction in a consistent manner—encouraging smart play rather than pile-it-on play.']item of protection did[/URL] changed too. It used to be a +1 to +5 deflection bonus, which was gigantic since +n armor & shields had an enhancement bonus allowing the of protection item to stack. The [URL='https://www.dndbeyond.com/magic-items/ring-of-protection']5e item of protection[/URL] by contrast gives +1 to ac and all saves. I was able to find a couple items & enhacements like the MiC githborn talisman & commander armor enhancement that added a +1 bonus to will saves but not one that added to [I]all[/I] saves.... the 5e ring of protection might be something that needs to draw from the epic level handbook or some splatbook to craft, but it's certainly not going to be in the same price range as other rare 5e items like a +2 weapon or +1 armor would have been in the past when body slots & slot affinities were both in place. All of that raises a question of 5e's design goals to crank magic items up so far while insisting that magic items are so optional that none of the system's math takes them being used into account. How the heck did wotc not foresee the problems created by cranking them up so igh & getting rid of so many safeguards they had? [/QUOTE]
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