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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Uller" data-source="post: 2687823" data-attributes="member: 413">Hi All,Long time no see.  Last night we only had half our group plus a new player so I decided to run a Halloween themed game.  I decide to go for a "Blair Witch" feel.  I gave them a hook (a monster raiding flocks of sheep in a nearby village...300gp to take care of it).  On the way, they were tricked into disturbing a graveyard haunted by a witch (a Green Hag) and a pack of 15 ghouls).    This freed the witch.  The party destroyed the monsters at the village.  On their way home, the witch began directing the ghouls to attack them.   They had to fight off wave after wave of them throughout the night.   The witch used her invisibility to stay out of sight, Dancing Lights to direct the ghouls to where the party was and ghost sound to keep the PCs confused.  Occasionally she'd come in close and use her weakness ability to sap the strenght of the party...all and all it was very cool.The party consisted of the following:Rog1/Wiz4Bar1/Sor4Clr5 (played by the new player)Pal3 (NPC run by me)I added the Paladin to the party to give them at least a little bit of undead turning.  I had made him before I knew there would be a cleric in the party (I worked out well because at one point EVERYONE was paralyzed except the Paladin and he managed to turn the ghouls to save them).Things went really well at first because the new player didn't quite realize the usefulness of turning.   He'd usually cast a spell in the first round and THEN try to turn the ghouls.  But eventually he realized that he only needed to roll a 4+ to turn most or all of the ghouls.  By the rules (they "flee by the fastest means available for 10 rounds") a turned ghoul is out of the fight for 20 rounds...that is pretty much out of the fight.  This cleric had an 11 Charisma.   Yet he could turn usually 3 or 4 ghouls with impunity(average of 12 HD per successful turning attempt).  I'm thinking either the Turning Check Result table  should be modified a bit to make turning undead a bit more difficult, or (better still) turning effect should simply require the cleric maintain concentration and merely keep them at bay (maybe 30 feet away) from the cleric.  I don't want to stip turning ability completely...but I want to make it so that a successful turn attempt doesn't remove turned undead from the fight completely.   So I'm open to ideas if anyone has any.In the end it worked out pretty well.  Without the cleric, they would have ended up having to fight for survival and flee the woods (and would have been lucky if all of them survived).  With the cleric (and the wizard's See Invisibilty spell combined with the Barbarian's True Strike), they ended up driving off the ghouls and badly wounding the witch.  So they felt confident enough to actually seek out her lair and killed her the next day.   My concern is that without a cleric, Undead can be too tough for a party.   With a cleric, they are too weak unless they can keep attacking over and over until the cleric is out of turning ability.</blockquote>

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