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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Sadrik" data-source="post: 2687979" data-attributes="member: 14506">I think clerics are bad design, because they attempt to get players to play them by making them really powerful (partial BAB, full spell progression, 2 good saves, armor, etc.) Nobody wants to play the character to get the game to work (healing battery). So they pumped them up. I think every class should have its own balanced merits without the game *needing* it, but that is a design choice. Most people buy into that design concept so its really not a problem. The other major problem I have with the cleric is the turn ability, what the op posted this thread for. It almost completely negates one group of monsters. (And very cool set of monsters at that!) To fix turning I think the moster should get a save somehow.The other problem with the ability is that at first level you get all of your turns per day at once. I would institute that they get 1 turn attempt every odd level, period. Rather than 3 + CHA mod at firtst level. This way at high level they have more and at low level they have fewer per day. It would also actually give a reason early on to take the extra turn feat.All the following abilities spend a turn attempt:Positive Energy AbilitiesTurn UndeadCreate a 10' cone (+10' more per turn attempt they spend) that makes the undead flee that are within the area for 1 minute. The Will save to negate is 10 + half the level of the cleric + CHA mod.Ward UndeadCreate a 10' radius sphere (+10' more per turn attempt they spend?), It has a 1 minute duration, and every round that the undead are in the area they need to make a Will save or leave the area. The Will save to ignore the area is 10 + half the level of the cleric + CHA mod.Destroy UndeadCreate a 10' cone (+10' more per turn attempt they spend) that destroys undead instanttaneous effect. The Fort save to negate is the level of the cleric + CHA mod.Negative Energy AbilitiesRebuke UndeadCreate a 10' cone (+10' more per turn attempt they spend) that makes the undead cower that are within the area for 1 minute. The Will save to negate is 10 + half the level of the cleric + CHA mod.Command UndeadTarget 1 undead per turn attempt spent and attempt to make them come under your mental control. The range is short. The Will save to negate is the level of the cleric + CHA mod. A maximum number of undead equal to the clerics level can be commanded.Dispel Turn UndeadTarget 1 undead per level of the cleric to negate the effects of turn undead, rebuke undead, command undead, or bolster undead. To get rid of the ward undead ability the two clerics most make opposed cha + level rolls.Bolter UndeadTarget 1 undead per level of the cleric to give the undead +4 to their saves against turn effects. Duration 1 minute.</blockquote>

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