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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Moon-Lancer" data-source="post: 2719343" data-attributes="member: 35798">I agree with alot of the posters on page five. If a dm puts a character in a position whare in both cases, he is going to loose his vop, then that’s not very mature, and the dm shouldn’t be using vop. (unless the dm is testing the player to see if he would break his vow. the corrent responce is that a vop charicter should uphold his vow now matter what. like aberham and god, or ghalahad and the girl, the vop charicter breaks his vow... then oops. a god that asks a vop charicter to break his vop, and takes away his vow if he doesent, then its really not a good god afterall, and shouldent be worshiped.. If he falls out of favor of a god, why couldent he just atone or find a new god?)if vop is followed by the dm and the player, its a balanced feat. Its unbalanced when many exceptions are made (like the holy sword). Vop can be hard or easy depending on the dm. I like the feat. Its not far from raw to let a cleric use a wooden holy symbol, a wizard to get only 2 spells a level and only have one book, a druid use holly or to allow for craftable weapons that would have to be made without the proper faculties, tools, and the materials would have to be scrounged up or foraged. My dm has said that using wood shape would be ok to use a bow and arrow, as long as its not a composite. She took away crossbows because although they are simple to use, they are not simple to make and they are expensive.She also has allowed key mundane items (like pc's mothers neckless) to be worn or use a wizards spell book to help with scrying (one could say its using the magic items, but not as its intended to be used). She also has allowed the vop character to gain benefit of key story items (nothing like swords) but say there is a mirror that the pc's travel through to get to plane to plane. the vop character can use things like that (in her campain), but she would never allow the character to use a wand for any reason, or use a magic iteam that is directly effecting the vop charicter, that isent just a story mechanic that is used outside of combat.A sword can be a story mechanic, but its also combat based, so its unbalanceing for a vop charicter to get to use relecis or swords or things to fight bbeg. Now if a dm wants to have things like this, and have the vop charicter able to use final battle eq, it should not be a real iteam. Maybe allow the player (if a caster) to get a sudden use of a near epic spell, or maybe have a sword like soul reaver for a fighter, (like a mindblade) so it could never really be sold, or used persay but comes from the pc in question and goes away after the fight.Its really the same thing, so a dm should be weary of doing things like this.</blockquote>

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