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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tessarael" data-source="post: 1968150" data-attributes="member: 12909">Quote Acid_crash, "And add the Wisdom bonus to initiative in addition to Dexterity, or even strip it from Dexterity completely."Rogues with Sneak Attack need good initiative to catch opponents flat-footed. Dexterity is rightly the prime attribute of a Rogue for this reason - don't take it away from them.I see no reason that Wisdom should add to initiative. However, if you do make this change, be sure to reduce the power of Clerics - Clerics are already the best class, this just makes improving Wisdom even better for them.I think there are better ways to balance the abilities against each other. Unfortunately, you are always going to have some gap between physical and mental characteristics - those classes which rely on one can use the others as dump stats with limited penalty. One solution is to reduce the impact that abilities have (e.g. +1 per 4 points), though I think the current system is fine personally. Another solution is to break up the abilities into smaller portions: 1. Muscle (+1 damage and increased carrying capacity) 2. Precision (+1 melee attack - get rid of Weapon Finesse)3. Perception (+1 missile attack) 4. Agility (+1 AC, +1 initiative, +1 Reflex save)5. Constitution (+1 HP/level and +1 Fortitude save)6. Will (bonus spells, +1 Will save)7. Knowledge (+1 spell save DC, max spell level, +4 skill points)8. Charm (+1 Fortitude/Reflex/Will save)Skills depending on each ability would be:Muscle - Climb, Intimidate, Jump, SwimPrecision - Balance, Craft, Disable Device, Forgery, Open Lock, Use RopePerception - Listen, Search, Sense Motive, Spot, SurvivalAgility - Escape Artist, Hide, Move Silently, Perform (Dance, instruments),  Ride, Sleight of HandWill - Concentration, Profession, Use Magic Device, Turning checks for Clerics and PaladinsKnowledge - Appraise, Decipher Script, Heal, Knowledge skills, SpellcraftCharm - Bluff, Diplomacy, Disguise, Gather Information, Handle Animal, Perform (Act, Comedy, Oratory)The advantage with this approach is that reducing an ability has a clear penalty associated with it and the abilities are better balanced vs. each other. Will and Knowledge are dump stats for those who don't cast spells and don't need skill points. A melee oriented character may use Perception as a dump stat. A missile oriented character may use Precision as a dump stat. Agility will be a dump stat for those who use heavy armor. Charm is a fairly poor choice of dump stat, as it affects all your saves.Just an idea I've been throwing around ...</blockquote>

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