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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CapnZapp" data-source="post: 6700906" data-attributes="member: 12731">This question boils down to the single question:How much fighting prowess are you willing to give up for those detecting and scouting abilities?For me, too much of what the Ranger brings is one of two things and too little is a third thing:1) passive group benefits. Example: "difficult terrain doesn't slow your group's travel". Why should I pay - in combat prowess - for something everybody gains from?2) benefits that is incompatible to D&D as a group activity. Example: "when traveling alone, you can move stealthily at a normal pace". Anything that turns the game into a one-man show is bad. Solo mini-scenarios such as "you'll stay behind while I scout out the mind flayer camp to find the princess" have no place at my tables. 3) things that make my character better at the things we do together, without completely overshadowing the other characters' abilities. A "force multiplier" as it were. The most common group activity in D&D, and by far its most well mechanically supported, is combat. In fact, few other activities count since social activities far too often boil down to "the face talking" and exploration far too often boil down to "you clumsy oafs stay back".When it comes to the Ranger, I consider the following class features worthwhile:* Spells. A few spells have high value, but most are things I'm not prepared to pay for. Hunter's Mark doesn't count, since I view it as an integral part of how the Ranger stays combat viable. Essentially, it's a tax; eating most if not all your slots.* Primeval Awareness. A cool ability that does not mean you solve things by yourself. Instead, you make a valuable contribution that acts like a force multiplier. This one should have gotten better with level.* Land's Stride. Okay I guess to help you move around a battlefield.* Hide in Plain Sight, Vanish and Feral Senses. The actual abilities are useful, but way too weak for its tier. If relying on class levels means you will probably be the last one to get it, something is wrong. * Foe Slayer should come sufficiently early that you get to enjoy it through a large part of your career. As a capstone ability, it's laughable.If the Ranger got ALL OF THIS no later than level 11, AND - most importantly - significant bits of it continued to get better with level, AND the class got other stuff at high level (levels 14, 18 and 20?) that actually impresses a high-level hero, then I would consider it worthwhile. No scratch that, then I would consider it a success; and I would gladly give up the difference in pure combat prowess.</blockquote>

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