Menu
News
All News
Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
Pathfinder
Starfinder
Warhammer
2d20 System
Year Zero Engine
Industry News
Reviews
Dragon Reflections
White Dwarf Reflections
Columns
Weekly Digests
Weekly News Digest
Freebies, Sales & Bundles
RPG Print News
RPG Crowdfunding News
Game Content
ENterplanetary DimENsions
Mythological Figures
Opinion
Worlds of Design
Peregrine's Nest
RPG Evolution
Other Columns
From the Freelancing Frontline
Monster ENcyclopedia
WotC/TSR Alumni Look Back
4 Hours w/RSD (Ryan Dancey)
The Road to 3E (Jonathan Tweet)
Greenwood's Realms (Ed Greenwood)
Drawmij's TSR (Jim Ward)
Community
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Resources
Wiki
Pages
Latest activity
Media
New media
New comments
Search media
Downloads
Latest reviews
Search resources
EN Publishing
Store
EN5ider
Adventures in ZEITGEIST
Awfully Cheerful Engine
What's OLD is NEW
Judge Dredd & The Worlds Of 2000AD
War of the Burning Sky
Level Up: Advanced 5E
Events & Releases
Upcoming Events
Private Events
Featured Events
Socials!
EN Publishing
Twitter
BlueSky
Facebook
Instagram
EN World
BlueSky
YouTube
Facebook
Twitter
Twitch
Podcast
Features
Top 5 RPGs Compiled Charts 2004-Present
Adventure Game Industry Market Research Summary (RPGs) V1.0
Ryan Dancey: Acquiring TSR
Q&A With Gary Gygax
D&D Rules FAQs
TSR, WotC, & Paizo: A Comparative History
D&D Pronunciation Guide
Million Dollar TTRPG Kickstarters
Tabletop RPG Podcast Hall of Fame
Eric Noah's Unofficial D&D 3rd Edition News
D&D in the Mainstream
D&D & RPG History
About Morrus
Log in
Register
What's new
Search
Search
Search titles only
By:
Forums & Topics
Forum List
Latest Posts
Forum list
*Dungeons & Dragons
Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition
D&D Older Editions, OSR, & D&D Variants
*TTRPGs General
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
EN Publishing
*Geek Talk & Media
Search forums
Chat/Discord
Menu
Log in
Register
Install the app
Install
Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is Wraithstrike the wrong level?
JavaScript is disabled. For a better experience, please enable JavaScript in your browser before proceeding.
You are using an out of date browser. It may not display this or other websites correctly.
You should upgrade or use an
alternative browser
.
Reply to thread
Message
<blockquote data-quote="Votan" data-source="post: 3266412" data-attributes="member: 18680"><p>This I would disagree with. Wraithstrike is strong but not so strong that it is better than a 6th level spell. It gives a huge bonus to hit because it is a touch attack. </p><p></p><p>However, 6th level makes some things change:</p><p></p><p>1) Low level dips can no longer acquire it. You need a focused Fighter/mage to acquire this spell requiring 11 levels of casting. This is becoming a good boost for an Eldritch Knight (at least 13th level for this class combination assuming it is based on wizard). </p><p></p><p>At 13th level the Wizard is casting Finger of Death, Reverse Gravity and Forcecage. Heck, even distintegrate is likely to do as much damage as a full attack action. </p><p></p><p>2) One of the nice things about Wraithstrike is that it comes out of spells that are rarely used but remains highly effective at high levels. Unenhanced second level spells are rarely effective uses of an action at 10th level. Wrathstrike was a notable exception to this rule. </p><p></p><p>3) Other metamagic competes. Using of Energy Substitution (to avoid energy resistence) and Empower on Scorching Ray is a 5th level spell. The 6th level equivalent is Maximize or Twin. Doing 24d6 (twinned) damage as a ranged touch attack at 50 feet plus (by this level) is generally easier to pull off than a full attack that requires getting close and is less investment than a charge based Wraithstrike. </p><p></p><p>4) Adding this spell to other lists (for example, via Extra Spell should you beleive that works) is no longer a complete no brainer for Paladins and Rangers. Only full casters with Quicken spell as a feat will see this as a potentially worthwhile investment. </p><p></p><p></p><p>It is still a decent use of a 6th level spell. But, now, it appears that there are choices that might be equally good or there is a requirement for a lot of investment in a particular strategy. I don't mind if careful investment can provide good options for a character. In particular, once multiple feats start to make sense then I think that the character is picking an option. That is good. </p><p></p><p>Once there is choice the spell starts to balance.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Votan, post: 3266412, member: 18680"] This I would disagree with. Wraithstrike is strong but not so strong that it is better than a 6th level spell. It gives a huge bonus to hit because it is a touch attack. However, 6th level makes some things change: 1) Low level dips can no longer acquire it. You need a focused Fighter/mage to acquire this spell requiring 11 levels of casting. This is becoming a good boost for an Eldritch Knight (at least 13th level for this class combination assuming it is based on wizard). At 13th level the Wizard is casting Finger of Death, Reverse Gravity and Forcecage. Heck, even distintegrate is likely to do as much damage as a full attack action. 2) One of the nice things about Wraithstrike is that it comes out of spells that are rarely used but remains highly effective at high levels. Unenhanced second level spells are rarely effective uses of an action at 10th level. Wrathstrike was a notable exception to this rule. 3) Other metamagic competes. Using of Energy Substitution (to avoid energy resistence) and Empower on Scorching Ray is a 5th level spell. The 6th level equivalent is Maximize or Twin. Doing 24d6 (twinned) damage as a ranged touch attack at 50 feet plus (by this level) is generally easier to pull off than a full attack that requires getting close and is less investment than a charge based Wraithstrike. 4) Adding this spell to other lists (for example, via Extra Spell should you beleive that works) is no longer a complete no brainer for Paladins and Rangers. Only full casters with Quicken spell as a feat will see this as a potentially worthwhile investment. It is still a decent use of a 6th level spell. But, now, it appears that there are choices that might be equally good or there is a requirement for a lot of investment in a particular strategy. I don't mind if careful investment can provide good options for a character. In particular, once multiple feats start to make sense then I think that the character is picking an option. That is good. Once there is choice the spell starts to balance. [/QUOTE]
Insert quotes…
Verification
Post reply
Community
General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Is Wraithstrike the wrong level?
Top