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Message: <blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 3272651" data-attributes="member: 9002">It's more like, this combo requires:2 pc's, good timing, 1 adjacent to enemy being targeted... ANDEnemy fails 2 saves, enemy is valid target for spell, enemy SR if any overcome, enemy not immune to holding, etc.I'd say over 90% of the "monsters" in the MM are not a valid target for Hold Person.  Many others have SR or immunities.  Others simply have great saves and won't likely fail the saves. I'd say even if you had the PC's in the required (optimal) positions, you won't have the enemy fail 2 saves more than one time in 5, at best.  And maybe 1 in 3 enemies are a valid target for the spell (and/or you get by the SR or whatever).  So it works about 1 time in 15 vs. 15 average monsters.  I'll be really generous, and say 1 time in 10.As power combo's go, that is incredibly weak (particularly since you are using up a lot of actions, from 2 PCs).Wraithstrike, on the other hand... has no saves.  Nothing is immune to melee damage (pretty much).  It takes no action to enable (cast and full attack same round).  You don't need pals around, and don't need the enemy in a particular position.  Hold Person scales up horribly; Wraithstrike actually gets more powerful at higher levels as full round attacks increase and average damage gets crazy.A non-munchkinized non min/maxxed fighter/mage type could very easily cast his 3rd level spells as Wraithstrikes too...and do 50+ damage a round from level 6 or so up.  That is PLENTY of Wraithstrikes in a day.  If you need more, you would have been dead long ago (Wraithstrike allowed you to survive as long as you have).Any slightly maximized build would be able to do hundreds of points of damage 10+ times a day.Is Extended Wraithstrike valid at 3rd level (? 2 rounds of ouch)?</blockquote>

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