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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Wulf Ratbane" data-source="post: 3579060" data-attributes="member: 94">Only if you consider live human sacrifice "evil."But let's not split hairs. That's ridiculous. The upshot of this line of thinking is that the individual is incapable of judging right from wrong; morality is subjugated to the state. Every free thinking and moral individual should utterly reject that line of thought. That way lies fascism.To refuse to make moral judgments is moral cowardice.Ahh, the deviousness of moral relativism: We'll avoid the discussion of actual right and wrong, by taking the discussion off the table entirely. Because, to even discuss it is to risk offending someone, and that would truly be a crime.What, waiting to rack up another 10,000 years of evidence before you jump to any conclusions?Of course we are wired to kill. That is the least common denominator.Civilization-- culture, morality, and respect for the rule of law-- are not our natural state. These are acquired habits. And they have to be forcefully defended against people who only understand force.The many fruits of civilizations have consistently, through all of history, been forcefully taken by uncivilized barbarians who can only be deterred by force.This is incontrovertible.When the "tough problem" in question is whether or not violence will be visited upon you, then violence is the only adequate (and moral) response.You wouldn't kill Hans Gruber? Never?You're off my list of foxhole buddies.I don't endorse his use of lethal violence because of his "special situation," I endorse his use of lethal violence because it is the right thing to do. It rings true.I believe you can neatly divide this thread into those who would agree with you on such a simple, black-and-white concept, and a few sophisticated moral relativists who won't.History has not dealt kindly with civilizations that become so secure, so complacent, so sophisticated as to separate themselves from the simple morality of simple men. You have to reach a pinnacle of security and safety-- a pinnacle earned with blood and sweat and that simpler morality-- before you can afford to indulge in moral relativism.Which brings me back to the OP.If the PCs hail from a world that has reached that pinnacle of safety and security, then the DM can afford to indulge them with sophisticated morality plays. However, if, as is true in the majority of campaigns I have played in and run, and as is true in the "core" expectations of D&D, the PCs hail from a world that has not yet reached that pinnacle, then it should be expected of them to set about the business of achieving that pinnacle by ruthlessly killing every single son-of-a-bitch who threatens the security and safety of their own civilization.</blockquote>

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