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General Tabletop Discussion
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Isolate and Kill vs. Neuter and Ignore: Which Control tactic do you prefer?
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<blockquote data-quote="KarinsDad" data-source="post: 5496738" data-attributes="member: 2011"><p>Ok, IE just ate my long detailed post with rules quotes, so I'm not going to write it again.</p><p></p><p>But bottom line, it's not that "no rule disallows you" to do it, it's that the rules allow it for other conjurations, so why not for this one?</p><p></p><p>PHB states that conjurations are not affected by environmental phenomena. Isn't gravity an environmental effect? PHB2 states that conjurations are not affected by Terrain and Precipitous Terrain is a type of terrain. ("Terrain and environmental phenomena have no effect on the conjuration.")</p><p></p><p>As for 3D, isn't squares 20 feet up unoccupied squares? Wouldn't you allow Ghost Sounds 20 feet up? Wouldn't you allow a Mage Hand to be conjured 15 feet up? Wouldn't you allow a Mage Hand to move an object up to a second story window?</p><p></p><p>Is it that farfetched that a Spirit Companion can move up to a second story window? It's a conjuration just like a Mage Hand.</p><p></p><p>Basically, gravity (or precipitous terrain) doesn't affect conjurations.</p><p></p><p>And the move of conjurations isn't a Walk. It isn't a Climb, Run, Swim, or Teleport. It's a move. Would you prevent a Spirit Companion from moving through water unless it had a Swim speed? Water is Underwater Terrain and Terrain doesn't affect conjurations.</p><p></p><p>The rules do not limit this to a Walk move or a 2D move on a surface. It's just a move. The Mage Hand moves to the window. The Spirit Companion moves to the bottom of the cliff (or the top of the cliff or off the cliff).</p><p></p><p>The only Terrain that stops a moving conjuration is Blocking Terrain (i.e. solid object) and Hindering Terrain (if caused by a solid object), but that's because there is a specific solid object rule.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>The rules might not have strong 3D support, but there is some in the DMG which supports 3D range and 3D movement.</p><p></p><p>And, there are explicit rules concerning conjurations that one has to at least bend to state that they cannot be conjured in the air and that Precipitous Terrain affects them.</p><p></p><p>I suspect that opposition to floating conjurations is more a reaction to the additional versatility of them and a reaction to the fact that it's mostly a new concept (i.e. something that didn't really happen in 3E either).</p><p></p><p></p><p>Bottom line: It's magic (and the rules support it more than they disallow it).</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="KarinsDad, post: 5496738, member: 2011"] Ok, IE just ate my long detailed post with rules quotes, so I'm not going to write it again. But bottom line, it's not that "no rule disallows you" to do it, it's that the rules allow it for other conjurations, so why not for this one? PHB states that conjurations are not affected by environmental phenomena. Isn't gravity an environmental effect? PHB2 states that conjurations are not affected by Terrain and Precipitous Terrain is a type of terrain. ("Terrain and environmental phenomena have no effect on the conjuration.") As for 3D, isn't squares 20 feet up unoccupied squares? Wouldn't you allow Ghost Sounds 20 feet up? Wouldn't you allow a Mage Hand to be conjured 15 feet up? Wouldn't you allow a Mage Hand to move an object up to a second story window? Is it that farfetched that a Spirit Companion can move up to a second story window? It's a conjuration just like a Mage Hand. Basically, gravity (or precipitous terrain) doesn't affect conjurations. And the move of conjurations isn't a Walk. It isn't a Climb, Run, Swim, or Teleport. It's a move. Would you prevent a Spirit Companion from moving through water unless it had a Swim speed? Water is Underwater Terrain and Terrain doesn't affect conjurations. The rules do not limit this to a Walk move or a 2D move on a surface. It's just a move. The Mage Hand moves to the window. The Spirit Companion moves to the bottom of the cliff (or the top of the cliff or off the cliff). The only Terrain that stops a moving conjuration is Blocking Terrain (i.e. solid object) and Hindering Terrain (if caused by a solid object), but that's because there is a specific solid object rule. The rules might not have strong 3D support, but there is some in the DMG which supports 3D range and 3D movement. And, there are explicit rules concerning conjurations that one has to at least bend to state that they cannot be conjured in the air and that Precipitous Terrain affects them. I suspect that opposition to floating conjurations is more a reaction to the additional versatility of them and a reaction to the fact that it's mostly a new concept (i.e. something that didn't really happen in 3E either). Bottom line: It's magic (and the rules support it more than they disallow it). [/QUOTE]
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Isolate and Kill vs. Neuter and Ignore: Which Control tactic do you prefer?
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