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Level Up: Advanced 5th Edition (A5E)
Issue with maneuvers
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<blockquote data-quote="Stalker0" data-source="post: 8426750" data-attributes="member: 5889"><p>I think by your example Gale Walk could be one as well, as its the lock for the much more power Hurricane Walk. That said, I think there is a difference between prereq and feat tax, though a subtle one. The term "marginal" is a key note here, I also think that "staying within the niche" is another.</p><p></p><p>3.5's Whirlwind Attack required Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. And frankly none of these feats have anything to do with attacking or spinning around....you are taking a bunch of defensive feats to get a really cool "offensive one". That is weird. It also doesn't hurt that mobility and spring attack are not great feats to your main fighter types.... great for a fast monk, but a monk doesn't have the feat space to take Whirlwind attack until very high levels. So its not optimal for anyone.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Now lets look at Adept Speed -> Gale Walk -> Hurricane Walk.... which I think is the biggest "chain" you see for the adept, and the closest to your "feat tax" concern.</p><p></p><p>Adept Speed is a very nice bonus, solid and useful. Gale Walk is a solid improvement. First, it actually utilizes adept speed, so its not wasted. Second, they are both working in the same niche....increasing my mobility.</p><p></p><p>Hurricane Walk once again is a focus on mobility, so we still moving in a straight line, and adept speed still works with this ability. Now you could argue that Gale Walk is mostly overwritten by HW. Unless there is a mechanic in LU that allows you to jump farther than your movement normally allows....fly is superior to jump in every way. However, Gale Walk does provide bonuses that either:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do not require exertion<br /> OR</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Do not require a bonus action</li> </ul><p>So while HW is generally the superior ability, there is still a niche for GW when you don't want to burn exertion and/or don't want to use a bonus action, which considering all of the various focuses and manuevers you have that utilize both....will probably be fairly often.</p><p></p><p>So while HW is a chain of prereqs, I think the prereqs both make sense AND are still ultimately useful in obtaining the niche I want, which is ultimate mobility. So I don't think that quite matches the old 3.5 whirlwind attack comparison you were making.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Stalker0, post: 8426750, member: 5889"] I think by your example Gale Walk could be one as well, as its the lock for the much more power Hurricane Walk. That said, I think there is a difference between prereq and feat tax, though a subtle one. The term "marginal" is a key note here, I also think that "staying within the niche" is another. 3.5's Whirlwind Attack required Combat Expertise, Dodge, Mobility, and Spring Attack. And frankly none of these feats have anything to do with attacking or spinning around....you are taking a bunch of defensive feats to get a really cool "offensive one". That is weird. It also doesn't hurt that mobility and spring attack are not great feats to your main fighter types.... great for a fast monk, but a monk doesn't have the feat space to take Whirlwind attack until very high levels. So its not optimal for anyone. Now lets look at Adept Speed -> Gale Walk -> Hurricane Walk.... which I think is the biggest "chain" you see for the adept, and the closest to your "feat tax" concern. Adept Speed is a very nice bonus, solid and useful. Gale Walk is a solid improvement. First, it actually utilizes adept speed, so its not wasted. Second, they are both working in the same niche....increasing my mobility. Hurricane Walk once again is a focus on mobility, so we still moving in a straight line, and adept speed still works with this ability. Now you could argue that Gale Walk is mostly overwritten by HW. Unless there is a mechanic in LU that allows you to jump farther than your movement normally allows....fly is superior to jump in every way. However, Gale Walk does provide bonuses that either: [LIST] [*]Do not require exertion OR [*]Do not require a bonus action [/LIST] So while HW is generally the superior ability, there is still a niche for GW when you don't want to burn exertion and/or don't want to use a bonus action, which considering all of the various focuses and manuevers you have that utilize both....will probably be fairly often. So while HW is a chain of prereqs, I think the prereqs both make sense AND are still ultimately useful in obtaining the niche I want, which is ultimate mobility. So I don't think that quite matches the old 3.5 whirlwind attack comparison you were making. [/QUOTE]
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