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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6900905" data-attributes="member: 996">It's been 16 years, has that mess been cleaned up much?In 4e saves were inverted to become non-AC defense, but your fighter was still likely to have REF and WILL below par, and your enemies' attack rolls scaled relentlessly.&nbsp; In 5e you have 4 out of 6 saves non-proficient, and DCs scale with level (not spell level, not caster level) and the caster's highest-priority stat.&nbsp; Ouch.4e didn't put much of that back.&nbsp; You got AoOs for casting range/area spells in melee, but they weren't spoiled or lost unless you were dropped outright.&nbsp; 5e has no AoO, no penalty of any kind for most spells cast in melee.&nbsp; OK, here there have been changes.&nbsp; 4e tightened spell (and other class and monster power, features, trait etc) descriptions considerably making them pretty clear for the most part.&nbsp; 5e obviously undid most of that, returning to natural language, but not as restrictive as 1e (nor quite as open to wild abuse).Actually, a peer foe could pretty nearly one-shot even a fighter or barbarian or the like - if 'one shot' is a full attack routine, especially.&nbsp; But the point stands, HD every level stacks up CON mod like crazy and you get insane hps in 3.x compared to 1e.&nbsp;&nbsp; How's it been since?&nbsp; Well, 4e did away with the dice but gave you hps, but not CON mod every level, so everyone got pretty tough, eventually.&nbsp; Defenders tended to have half-again the hps of controllers.&nbsp; But, then, peer foes couldn't easily one-shot anyone (a same-level MM3 Lurker might easily bloody a PC in one shot).&nbsp; 5e is right back to HD &amp; CON mod ever single level.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6900905, member: 996"] It's been 16 years, has that mess been cleaned up much? In 4e saves were inverted to become non-AC defense, but your fighter was still likely to have REF and WILL below par, and your enemies' attack rolls scaled relentlessly. In 5e you have 4 out of 6 saves non-proficient, and DCs scale with level (not spell level, not caster level) and the caster's highest-priority stat. Ouch. 4e didn't put much of that back. You got AoOs for casting range/area spells in melee, but they weren't spoiled or lost unless you were dropped outright. 5e has no AoO, no penalty of any kind for most spells cast in melee. OK, here there have been changes. 4e tightened spell (and other class and monster power, features, trait etc) descriptions considerably making them pretty clear for the most part. 5e obviously undid most of that, returning to natural language, but not as restrictive as 1e (nor quite as open to wild abuse). Actually, a peer foe could pretty nearly one-shot even a fighter or barbarian or the like - if 'one shot' is a full attack routine, especially. But the point stands, HD every level stacks up CON mod like crazy and you get insane hps in 3.x compared to 1e. How's it been since? Well, 4e did away with the dice but gave you hps, but not CON mod every level, so everyone got pretty tough, eventually. Defenders tended to have half-again the hps of controllers. But, then, peer foes couldn't easily one-shot anyone (a same-level MM3 Lurker might easily bloody a PC in one shot). 5e is right back to HD & CON mod ever single level. [/QUOTE]

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