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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Killer Shrike" data-source="post: 1359199" data-attributes="member: 1829">Interfacing w/ users is what Help Desks and Project Managers are for. Developers rarely interface closely with their users on a day to day basis. Or at least in my experience for the last 6 years working as a professional developer at several companies. YMMV. They certainly dont often interface w/ their "users" via a any-body-can-ask discussion board. If every employee in my company were allowed to call and ask me or even just email me to ask me "dumb user questions" at my job I'd quit. Here's an example, apropos of why end users are generally kept from developers from my own experience of the frustrations of dealing with users:User, bumped into in the hallway: "I think the Payroll Budget Control/Planning program you wrote should track checks written on expenses accounts."A: "Sorry, but the Payroll Budget doesnt have anything to do with Expense Account Expenditures -- thats part of the general Budget and is a company wide expense, plus that data isnt stored in the corporate Payroll System anyway so theres no way to even get that data"User: "But I really need that functionality to calculate my departments Budget"A: "Uh, you may want to check w/ the Budget Manger on that, because its not part of any of the Payroll Budget formulaes or rules. If you are including that information you may be throwing your Departments numbers off"U: [getting snippy] "Well, Ive been doing the Budget for three years here and we always include the Expense Account data with the budget numbers"A: "Well you shouldnt include it with the Payroll Budget; it's an entirely different thing than the general Budget. It's a calculated projection of last years salaries, associated costs of employeing someone, adjusted for tax changes, health plan changes, and deals with expected turnover, vacancies, and dynamic averaging for missing data, new positions that didnt exist last year, seasonal positions, expexted OT, Holiday, Differentials, Bonuses, and other salary-associated costs. The Expense Account data are flat numbers they get from Accounts Payable, and though individual employees are making the payouts, its not part of their salary and has nothing to do with Payroll."U: "Well, I work in Accounts Payable, and we need to see those numbers to do the budget."A: "Uh, if you work in AP, then YOU ARE THE ONLY PEOPLE THAT HAS THOSE NUMBERS. You keep them in your own system and Payroll doesnt have access to them because it has nothing to do with Payroll, and nothing to do with the Payroll Budget. I think you are confusing the Payroll Budget with the general Budget."U: [snippy again] "Well, when do you think you'll finish the software so that it can do all of the Budget?"A: "The Payroll Budget System has been finished for months. It does everything it's supposed to do, which is calculate the Payroll Budget; which is why it's called the PAYROLL BUDGET System and not the CORPORATE BUDGET System. It generates numbers that are then exported and imported into the Corporate system which we dont control -- Corporate does. It's purpose is to prevent Payroll from spending three to four months every year doing manual calcs and redos on the Payroll Budget like they did when I got here. Thats it and thats all. You should talk to the Budget Manager and he'll tell you how it is."U: [not happy] "Well we spend a lot of time doing Expense Accounts for the Budget every year too. Why dont we get a program?" A: "Well, whats to do with the Expense Accounts? You have all that data because you cut the checks. One point of exit from the company. It should be a straight shot to get that into the corporate system, all you have to do is type in the numbers, no calcs necessary."U: "It takes a lot of typing. Couldnt you make it automatic."A: "If you store it in a consistent data oriented fashion like a non-formatted spread sheet or something I could probably write a little script to format into somthing the Corporate system could take. Talk to the Budget Manger and the Comptroller; if they think its worthwhile they can add it to the list of things Finance wants done and they can wrangle with the other departments in the the Systems Resources Comittee to get it added to the docket. How much time does it take to input this data manually via the corporate systems user interface by the way?"U: "At least three or four hours."A: "A year?"U: "Well, sometimes more."A: "Uh huh. Well, good luck getting that prioritized then, because I doubt it will make it to the Systems Resource Committee."Talked to the Budget Manager on the phone later, his answer? "Yeah, dont worry about her, she's often.....disoriented regarding the subject matter at hand. Besides, keeping track of those numbers through the year and getting that data into the corporate system is a good part of her job; if you wrote a program to do it...."And Im not apologizing for Dan, merely trying to keep things in perspective. Dan does generally answer questions calmly and politely. Its the people that cant take no for an answer that exceed his patience levels.There's plenty of traffic in the HD v2 forum, and Dan answers them personally. What developer does that interactively, typically within minutes of the question being posted and almost always the same day regardless? Thats a pretty constant distraction IMO, and I can totally understand how Dan might feel the need to put a stop to "pop tart" style posters. Its not say 10 people asking the same q over and over; its the times where ONE PERSON asks something out of the blue about as on subject as: "I want the software to wash my dishes"; A: "The software doesnt do dishes"; Same Person: "I really really want it to, and my GM says its ok"; A: "Not going to happen"; Same Person: "This sucks, your program sucks, you suck. Why cant it do what I want it to do?"..... Glad to hear you like the software and looking forward to your review. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /></blockquote>

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