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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5083659" data-attributes="member: 4937">When I was in high school, there was a friend of mine (not close, as he was older than me) who was one of these natural leaders of men.  He was magnetic.  His ability to pick up women was legendary.  He eventually became an air force pilot I think.  On several occassions when I was trying to hang out with the 'cool kids', I made several japes that I thought were funny.  No one paid even the slightest attention to me, except this friend who then proceded to tell the same joke to much laughter.Reasonableness has nothing to do with it.  It's a rather nerd perspective to imagine that you are primarily judged on a logical basis or that what most people notice about someone else is their intelligence.  That's not even entirely true among nerds, but among non-nerds all the wetware is running on judging facial symmetry, the confidence and aggressiveness of the speaker, body posture, and so forth.  Well, obviously because you didn't want to fail in social situations.  Didn't someone in the party have a charisma above 8?  Seriously, this is a classic example of my theory that pure power gamers always lose once the DM gets some skills.Well, by the rules, admittedly very little.  The combat applications of smooth talking and being a pretty face are limited.  Partly this is because the social skills are so darn powerful. However, I've always thought that there ought to be more reason not to have charisma as a dump stat.  In my house rules, you get a number of 'destiny points' equal to your charisma bonus.  This represents essentially the favor of spirits and the gods, who will on your behalf alter the universe just because they like you.  You can use destiny points to buy rerolls or add bonus dice to the total of any throw.   I also add some combat feats that depended on charisma, representing the ability to harness your emotions and to control the emotions of others.Being real life charismatic and even more importantly, real life reasonable, is a big help because you can get your character doing the right thing.  It's like being a good tactician or a good puzzle solver in real life.  It means that your character will make the most of a given situation.  But, if in fact all you need is player skill, then not only is there no point in having Diplomacy or Bluff as a skill, there is no point in having Charisma as an attribute.  I will take into account the player's reasonableness, cleverness, and social insight when making charisma based skill checks, but ultimately it still comes down to a die roll.I should note however, that just as in the real world, not every friendship or relationship is defined by the charisma of the two parties.  It's possible for even a very uncharismatic character through his actions to work his way into the esteem of others.  If someone saves your life, for example, that person is likely to hold you in high esteem even if you have the social adeptness and graces of a pig.  Likewise, if the character gains a reputation for learning, wisdom, and intelligence, people will still consult his opinions and hold them in high regard even if he's in public a stuttering socially awkward and foolish appearing person.  Neither charisma nor dice is everything.  If you have a high charisma, but turn out to be shallow and empty, then people will mostly come to disregard your opinions over time - even if they still like you.  They just probably think of you as a charming child.Even the best roleplayer will have a hard time bringing certain character concepts to life if only for the simple fact that not every character will be pleasing and satisfying for every player to run.  A good roleplayer knows his limitations and creates a character which suits his desires.  In my opinion this is more important than squeezing the very last +1 bonus into your base attack.  In a reasonably complicated campaign, dumping everything to gain extreme specialization in one small area of the game (usually combat) is often a highly suboptimal strategy.  Sure, you'll be a combat monster, but if you aren't successful in every other area of the game you'll be in for frustration - especially if everyone in the party has adopted the same basic specialization.  If this occurs the DM is left with nothing but the rather unsavory choice of tailoring the campaign to be heavily combat focused, which usually involves essentially and endless dungeon crawl.</blockquote>

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