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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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<blockquote data-quote="CPXB" data-source="post: 1468566" data-attributes="member: 17233"><p>Let me describe the situation:</p><p></p><p>I play in this weekly game that's a pretty typical D&D game. The party consists, currently, of my character, a sixth level monk who is fairly twinked out for combat, a fifth level druid, a fifth level bard and a sixth level sorcerer. The druid has summon monster I & II and the druid, obviously, has wide access to summon nature's ally spells. Our characters are pretty beefy.</p><p></p><p>The last session the sorcerer's player wasn't there. We went on without him. So it was my monk, the bard and druid.</p><p></p><p>The party is in a village. There was some role-playing stuff that is largely irrelevant to this discussion. Then the village was attacked by a hill giant. Well, since we're heroes we give out our battle cry and attack. Adventuring is our core business, one might say.</p><p></p><p>During the fight, I rolled typically well. Given the AC of the giants, 20, and that I was at +10 or +11 to hit, I hit about half the time, including two stunning blows. Natch, none of the stunning blows worked against the good Fort save, high Con giant, but I had to try. Equally obviously, I did not try to use my improved trip on the giant -- bigger *and* stronger. Better just to deal damage, I figured.</p><p></p><p>So, to emphasize, I was doing pretty normal in the fight.</p><p></p><p>Enter the now fifth level druid. She's got two third level spells, due to high Wis. So, she summons a dire wolf.</p><p></p><p>As many hit points. Hits more often. Hits harder.</p><p></p><p>Then she summons a LION. Lion pounces -- FIVE ATTACKS.</p><p></p><p>Naturally, her animal companion is in the fight, too. As many hit points, same AC, almost as good to hit and damage.</p><p></p><p>The fight goes on. We put down one giant. Another appears. Add in two dire badgers.</p><p></p><p>See me: feeling useless. The dire wolf and the lion damn well ruled that fight -- the wolf could fairly consistently trip the giants, too. So not only was it doing more damage than my monk, the think was better at tripping than my monk! Good lord, and that lion! It pounced the second giant and did something like thirty-five or forty points of damage in one turn! The druid's menagerie did well over sixty points of damage in one turn to the second giant.</p><p></p><p>I was pretty seriously bummed out. The druid is able to summon critters that are simply better at fighting than my character -- and she can keep summoning them. And it only gets worse from here. I dread summon nature's ally IV -- I looked at those critters and what they'll do in terms of damage compared to a seventh or eighth level monk. It is simply not pretty.</p><p></p><p>So, like, is my monk irrelevant to the game or am I and the GM missing something?</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="CPXB, post: 1468566, member: 17233"] Let me describe the situation: I play in this weekly game that's a pretty typical D&D game. The party consists, currently, of my character, a sixth level monk who is fairly twinked out for combat, a fifth level druid, a fifth level bard and a sixth level sorcerer. The druid has summon monster I & II and the druid, obviously, has wide access to summon nature's ally spells. Our characters are pretty beefy. The last session the sorcerer's player wasn't there. We went on without him. So it was my monk, the bard and druid. The party is in a village. There was some role-playing stuff that is largely irrelevant to this discussion. Then the village was attacked by a hill giant. Well, since we're heroes we give out our battle cry and attack. Adventuring is our core business, one might say. During the fight, I rolled typically well. Given the AC of the giants, 20, and that I was at +10 or +11 to hit, I hit about half the time, including two stunning blows. Natch, none of the stunning blows worked against the good Fort save, high Con giant, but I had to try. Equally obviously, I did not try to use my improved trip on the giant -- bigger *and* stronger. Better just to deal damage, I figured. So, to emphasize, I was doing pretty normal in the fight. Enter the now fifth level druid. She's got two third level spells, due to high Wis. So, she summons a dire wolf. As many hit points. Hits more often. Hits harder. Then she summons a LION. Lion pounces -- FIVE ATTACKS. Naturally, her animal companion is in the fight, too. As many hit points, same AC, almost as good to hit and damage. The fight goes on. We put down one giant. Another appears. Add in two dire badgers. See me: feeling useless. The dire wolf and the lion damn well ruled that fight -- the wolf could fairly consistently trip the giants, too. So not only was it doing more damage than my monk, the think was better at tripping than my monk! Good lord, and that lion! It pounced the second giant and did something like thirty-five or forty points of damage in one turn! The druid's menagerie did well over sixty points of damage in one turn to the second giant. I was pretty seriously bummed out. The druid is able to summon critters that are simply better at fighting than my character -- and she can keep summoning them. And it only gets worse from here. I dread summon nature's ally IV -- I looked at those critters and what they'll do in terms of damage compared to a seventh or eighth level monk. It is simply not pretty. So, like, is my monk irrelevant to the game or am I and the GM missing something? [/QUOTE]
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Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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