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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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<blockquote data-quote="Spatula" data-source="post: 1469227" data-attributes="member: 2198"><p>How were your monk's ability scores generated? Average rolls or average point buys (~25) produce rather poor monks IMO because they need so many decent stats to perform well compared to most other classes.</p><p></p><p>I'm rather surprised the summoned animals did so well against the giants. The main drawback to most animals in combat is their relatively poor ACs. A giant using Power Attack should have been able to crush the creatures without much effort. And while the animals can close with opponents quickly, they don't have a way to avoid triggering attacks of opportunity when closing with the giants (whereas a monk would presumably have Tumble and/or Spring Attack).</p><p></p><p>EDIT: An example...</p><p></p><p>Druid summons dire wolf. Dire wolf charges hill giant. Hill giant gets AoO, uses 2 pts PA, and hits (+14 atk vs 14 AC), doing 23 damage on average. That's a little more than half the dire wolf's HP right there. Now, the wolf has a 60% chance of hitting and a 50% chance of tripping with a hit (both creatures are the same size & strength). But even on the ground (-4 to hit IIRC), the hill giant only misses on a 1 or a 2 without using any PA.</p><p></p><p>Against multiple hill giants, the dire wolf shouldn't have lasted more than a round. The lion's AC is one better but it only has 3/4 the wolf's HP, making it even more fragile.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Spatula, post: 1469227, member: 2198"] How were your monk's ability scores generated? Average rolls or average point buys (~25) produce rather poor monks IMO because they need so many decent stats to perform well compared to most other classes. I'm rather surprised the summoned animals did so well against the giants. The main drawback to most animals in combat is their relatively poor ACs. A giant using Power Attack should have been able to crush the creatures without much effort. And while the animals can close with opponents quickly, they don't have a way to avoid triggering attacks of opportunity when closing with the giants (whereas a monk would presumably have Tumble and/or Spring Attack). EDIT: An example... Druid summons dire wolf. Dire wolf charges hill giant. Hill giant gets AoO, uses 2 pts PA, and hits (+14 atk vs 14 AC), doing 23 damage on average. That's a little more than half the dire wolf's HP right there. Now, the wolf has a 60% chance of hitting and a 50% chance of tripping with a hit (both creatures are the same size & strength). But even on the ground (-4 to hit IIRC), the hill giant only misses on a 1 or a 2 without using any PA. Against multiple hill giants, the dire wolf shouldn't have lasted more than a round. The lion's AC is one better but it only has 3/4 the wolf's HP, making it even more fragile. [/QUOTE]
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Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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