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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Coredump" data-source="post: 1469978" data-attributes="member: 6939">You have spent 3 pages talking about this.... There isn't much left to assumeYes, they can pounce, which means that instead of being restricted to one attack (ala charge rules) they can take a full attack. This does not mean it automatically gets to rake. The rules for rake state that it needs to succeed at a bite, and a grapple check.I will assume one pounce for each giant. Which as I understand it, means two AoO's. That is a dead lion before the second pounce. (Charge has no AoO, but movement through a threatened area does.) and the lion hits suck, see below.VERY good luck, about a 9% chance of getting both of them. Plus he should have been dead from the two AoO. (granted, some of these AoO may overlap...) still have a hard time hitting see below.I means (again) that the lion gets to make a full attack, not just a single attack. But it still has to land the bite and grapple for the rake.Yeah, I mentioned that it might be. So lets assume it is, you didn't mention how much, so lets assume the bard was singing so +1/+1, and a +4 because *both* giants were knocked prone. And further, lets assume it somehow survived the multiple 'instahits' the giant could unleash. And lets take 39 pts damage. With the +5 to hit and +1 damage... that brings it to a 0.17% chance (0.015% if you also factor the two trips)And again, this ignores the grapple check that the lion would likely not win.Every AoO or attack from the giant is going to hit. (The second attack, while prone, still hits on a 7) how are these animals surviving? You can gripe all you want. But the druid trick is a one shot, and they should have been fairly ineffective. While your monk would have been more useful, and for a longer period of time. But hey, complain away.....</blockquote>

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