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Message: <blockquote data-quote="CPXB" data-source="post: 1470632" data-attributes="member: 17233">One of the fellas a while ago posted a thread wherein people talked about the monk class . . . and I think that the monk class is more than just somewhat disingenuous.  I think its broken.  Many, clearly, disagree, but . . . .Lots of people have said that monks aren't first rate melee fighters.  I say, "But a huge portion of their class features at lower levels, not to mention the escalating damage of their unarmed attacks, does lead a person to think that monks should be heavy melee fighters."  Furthermore, out of melee, they are almost entirely useless.  Oh, they have Hide and Move Silently -- well, the rogue has that, does more damage in a fight, and is useful in other ways outside of a fight (what with the opening of locks and disarming of traps).  Indeed, a monk is generally defeated by the first locked door they come across in terms of stealth.  Also, compare to ranger -- best BAB, two good saves, spells, also sneaky as hell, favored enemies, animal companions, tracking, etc.  Who would you want in a party?  A ranger -- better melee figher (or much better ranged fighter) and excellent stealth and wilderness survival skills -- or a monk who isn't as good in melee and has no outdoors skills.But I think the real kicker is when comparing the monk to the paladin.  Paladins fight very well, have as good of saving throws with divine grace, they can cure damage and disease and they can cast some spells too boot.  Oh, and they get the wonder horse.  So, better in a fight and far more useful out of a fight.I think it is reasonable to at the bare minimum suggest that the monk class has something wrong with it.  Of course, YMMV.  Indeed, you do seem to be getting different mileage.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" />What we are going to do is go slow.  What we seem to be doing right now is going through the monk class to eliminate things that I either don't care about or seem to be non-abilities (such as the ability to be immune to normal diseases . . . how often does that come up, really?) and replace them with better stuff.  I'm still lobbying for feats.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile    :)"  data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

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