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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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<blockquote data-quote="Sereg" data-source="post: 1471635" data-attributes="member: 18008"><p><strong>Well</strong></p><p></p><p>What it comes down to, is this...</p><p></p><p>You're comparing arguably the strongest class in 3.5 to the weakest. Its not gonna be pretty. I've played monks on and off since 3.0, and almost all fail horribly. The one's that almost kept up with other players invariably used external shots in the arm like insane stats + monstrous race, extensive third party material, or the like. Monks synergy is all about defense, and D&D is an offensive game. </p><p></p><p>This isn't just theoretical: I've played at least 15+ monks from all levels, in all types of campaigns, with all GM's. Yes, he was more valued in a campaign with lots of spellcasters. No, he still wasn't even close to the MvP. </p><p></p><p>I really emphasize with you here, because in my CURRENT campaign (level 15-17, Forgotten Realms, 3.5), I'm playing a monk. I've designed him to be a battle monk, and have gone seriously all out with cheese because I know how weak melee are, let alone monks, at level 15+. To break it down, we're talking wisdom to hit three times, wisdom to damage twice, untouchable ac, that sort of thing. As min maxed as I could make him. And guess what?</p><p></p><p>THE DRUID WITH BAD STATS AND NO PRCS IS EQUALLY STRONG TO STRONGER MOST BATTLES AND INFINITLY MORE USEFUL TO THE PARTY.</p><p></p><p>Really, think about that for a moment. A UTTERLY non min-maxed druid, played by a relative newbie to D&D / RPG strategies, is at the very least equal to the most ludicriously overpowered twinked "I-am-Neo" monk WotC material could produce.</p><p></p><p>It's an uphill battle as any fighter, against a druid. A low level monk is just laughable. The irony here is, when you get to higher levels (14+), even a fighter who might have competed from 4-10 is going to start showing strain compared to a druid.</p><p></p><p></p><p>If you desire to continue playing a monk, I'd be happy to help you make him stronger using WotC material, but I'd counsel you to not fight an uphill battle, and change to a spellcaster or barbarian/paladin/prc'ed hybrid, and don't look back. </p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Sereg</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Sereg, post: 1471635, member: 18008"] [b]Well[/b] What it comes down to, is this... You're comparing arguably the strongest class in 3.5 to the weakest. Its not gonna be pretty. I've played monks on and off since 3.0, and almost all fail horribly. The one's that almost kept up with other players invariably used external shots in the arm like insane stats + monstrous race, extensive third party material, or the like. Monks synergy is all about defense, and D&D is an offensive game. This isn't just theoretical: I've played at least 15+ monks from all levels, in all types of campaigns, with all GM's. Yes, he was more valued in a campaign with lots of spellcasters. No, he still wasn't even close to the MvP. I really emphasize with you here, because in my CURRENT campaign (level 15-17, Forgotten Realms, 3.5), I'm playing a monk. I've designed him to be a battle monk, and have gone seriously all out with cheese because I know how weak melee are, let alone monks, at level 15+. To break it down, we're talking wisdom to hit three times, wisdom to damage twice, untouchable ac, that sort of thing. As min maxed as I could make him. And guess what? THE DRUID WITH BAD STATS AND NO PRCS IS EQUALLY STRONG TO STRONGER MOST BATTLES AND INFINITLY MORE USEFUL TO THE PARTY. Really, think about that for a moment. A UTTERLY non min-maxed druid, played by a relative newbie to D&D / RPG strategies, is at the very least equal to the most ludicriously overpowered twinked "I-am-Neo" monk WotC material could produce. It's an uphill battle as any fighter, against a druid. A low level monk is just laughable. The irony here is, when you get to higher levels (14+), even a fighter who might have competed from 4-10 is going to start showing strain compared to a druid. If you desire to continue playing a monk, I'd be happy to help you make him stronger using WotC material, but I'd counsel you to not fight an uphill battle, and change to a spellcaster or barbarian/paladin/prc'ed hybrid, and don't look back. Sereg [/QUOTE]
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Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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