Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="jgsugden" data-source="post: 1473012" data-attributes="member: 2629">Hmmm ... I must enjoy banging my head against a wall ... otherwise I'd leave this thread alone.Monk as scout: Yes, locked doors stop him. Of course, if you run into a locked door, that is usually a good time to get the rest of the party (IMHO). Scout /= Thief. A scout finds out what you're facing before the party clambers in so that the PCs can properly prepare. Good scouts can: a.) stay hidden, b.) spot things of interest and c.) get out of a tight spot. Monks do all 3 things exceptionally well.Monk as a diplomat: You don't need a high charisma to be a good diplomat. My epic 1/2 orc rogue/barbarian has a charisma of 8 and a diplomacy in the 20s. All it takes is acess to diplomacy a a class skill and enough skill points that you can afford to grab a few ranks in diplomacy. Beyond that, the monk often has an organization behind him that provides role playing resources, but that is purely a campaign specific aspect that can't be counted upon as a balance tool.Monk versus paladin in combat: The monk with flurry of blows does not *always* have more attacks than the 2 handed or sword&board paladin, but he does at levels 1-5 and 8-20. But at levels 5 and 6, the paladin has the same amount. 10% of the time between levels 1 and 20. Similarly, the saving throw arguments go out the door at higher levels.Now, let's look at these characters in combat. The paladin, like the spellcaster, can use up a lot of abilities in one combat and be incredibly effective. He has a lot of damage dealing abilities that can deal massive damage to a foe in just a few rounds. Mucho damage against certain foes, but requiring the use of resources that, once depleted, can not be used for 24 hours or until the paladin rests.The monk, like the pure fighter or (to an extent) ranger, deals damage consistently and evenly. The monk technically has a limit on the number of stuns he may perform in a day, but that limit is pretty high. As the day progresses and the paladin's resources diminish, the monk will be relatively more and more powerful.Plus, the stunning fist of the monk can end a combat in one round. A stunned foe without dexterity to AC will likely not survive more than 1 rd in any battle at any level unless it is a high hit point BBEG. People keep ignoring this massive advantage of the monk (which may be traded for improved grappling, though I often find it best for a monk to have both at 1st level), though it is far from meaningless. Even creatures with a very high fort save fail 5% of the time ... If you hit them with 4 or 5 attacks in a round, you get a 20 - 24% chance of stunning them. The BAB of the monk versus the BAB of the other melee classes: the monk falls behind. The monk trades accuracy for special abilities and a greater number of attacks. When compared to the two weapon fielding fighter/ranger, the closest comparison figure, it never falls more than effectively being 3 behind. You fall effectively 3 behind to gain a variety of special abilities. If you want your melee fighter to do as much damage as possible on every attack roll, monk isn't your best choice. For others, monk is a fine choice. I've seen MANY games. It is clearly evident from those games that a monk can be a vitally important PC in a party. Whether he is or isn't depends upon whether the game is structured to suit his capabilities. Most games Ive played in have been well structured to make a monk a powerful PC type. If you're playing in a different style game and the monk isn't as useful, don't think of it as a default of the class. Think of it as a facet of the campaign style.</blockquote>

Verification