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General Tabletop Discussion
*Pathfinder & Starfinder
Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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<blockquote data-quote="hong" data-source="post: 1474015" data-attributes="member: 537"><p>Sigh.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Yes.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>No. The monk never really gets a chance to compete for spotlight time. This is a far, far cry from "total and dominating glory".</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>You have a remarkable way of telling me things I already know. How many times did you rehearse this line?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Yes, because D&D is really all about character building. BACK IN OLDEN TIMES I WALKED SIX MILES TO THE SCHOOL, IN THE SNOW, UPHILL, BOTH WAYS, WHICH WAS MADE ALL THE MORE REMARKABLE BECAUSE THERE IS, IN FACT, NO SNOW IN AUSTRIA. SO I HAD TO HAVE IT IMPORTED FROM AUSTRALIA, THAT'S HOW MUCH CHARACTER I BUILT.</p><p> </p><p>Clue for the clueless: it is, in fact, possible for a class to be a bad design. This happens when its design precedents lead to the expectation that it should be able to do certain things, but its actual mechanics fail to deliver. This has nothing at all to do with the player, except if you think people are stupid for actually believing those precedents might have something to do with the game. In which case you should perhaps go back to playing chess.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Bullcrap. If you're healing in combat, and blowing off spells to do so, you're being stupid. The achilles heel of a high-level cleric is not lack of spells or healing in combat, but prep time. Without a few rounds to do the divine favour/div power/righteous might thing, a cleric is mediocre. Why do you think Persistent Spell was almost universally derided as broken?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Have you somehow never noticed how the class is powered up exactly because few people want to play the party medic, and need to be bribed to do so?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>The fact that one complaint may be unjustified does not imply another complaint is similarly unjustified.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>If you insist on dropping spells that target enemies' high saves, you're again being stupid.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Bullcrap. I have never seen a mob of _mooks_ that were immune to high-level magic. BBEGs, maybe. Mooks? Pah.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And noone usually complains that melee tanks are lacking in the ability to take the spotlight. They may observe that spellcasters are better able to decide a fight in one round, but overall, tanks do quite well, thankyouverymuch. At least to the extent that being a tank is possibly the most dangerous position in a party, anyway.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p> </p><p>What planet are you on?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>And this shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that stunning fist is good, because you stopped immediately after that and never played D&D ever again.</p><p> </p><p>Question. Why don't you play the monk, and go around saving other people's lives?</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>Nonsense. Hint: multiple stat dependency. Hint 2: weapon enchantments.</p><p> </p><p> </p><p>So cease babbling about matters of which you know nothing.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="hong, post: 1474015, member: 537"] Sigh. Yes. No. The monk never really gets a chance to compete for spotlight time. This is a far, far cry from "total and dominating glory". You have a remarkable way of telling me things I already know. How many times did you rehearse this line? Yes, because D&D is really all about character building. BACK IN OLDEN TIMES I WALKED SIX MILES TO THE SCHOOL, IN THE SNOW, UPHILL, BOTH WAYS, WHICH WAS MADE ALL THE MORE REMARKABLE BECAUSE THERE IS, IN FACT, NO SNOW IN AUSTRIA. SO I HAD TO HAVE IT IMPORTED FROM AUSTRALIA, THAT'S HOW MUCH CHARACTER I BUILT. Clue for the clueless: it is, in fact, possible for a class to be a bad design. This happens when its design precedents lead to the expectation that it should be able to do certain things, but its actual mechanics fail to deliver. This has nothing at all to do with the player, except if you think people are stupid for actually believing those precedents might have something to do with the game. In which case you should perhaps go back to playing chess. Bullcrap. If you're healing in combat, and blowing off spells to do so, you're being stupid. The achilles heel of a high-level cleric is not lack of spells or healing in combat, but prep time. Without a few rounds to do the divine favour/div power/righteous might thing, a cleric is mediocre. Why do you think Persistent Spell was almost universally derided as broken? Have you somehow never noticed how the class is powered up exactly because few people want to play the party medic, and need to be bribed to do so? The fact that one complaint may be unjustified does not imply another complaint is similarly unjustified. If you insist on dropping spells that target enemies' high saves, you're again being stupid. Bullcrap. I have never seen a mob of _mooks_ that were immune to high-level magic. BBEGs, maybe. Mooks? Pah. And noone usually complains that melee tanks are lacking in the ability to take the spotlight. They may observe that spellcasters are better able to decide a fight in one round, but overall, tanks do quite well, thankyouverymuch. At least to the extent that being a tank is possibly the most dangerous position in a party, anyway. What planet are you on? And this shows beyond a shadow of a doubt that stunning fist is good, because you stopped immediately after that and never played D&D ever again. Question. Why don't you play the monk, and go around saving other people's lives? Nonsense. Hint: multiple stat dependency. Hint 2: weapon enchantments. So cease babbling about matters of which you know nothing. [/QUOTE]
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Issues with Summon Monster/Summon Nature's Ally (2004 Thread)
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