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<blockquote data-quote="hong" data-source="post: 1474601" data-attributes="member: 537">I am listening to you perfectly well. I am also finding that what you say is perfectly stupid. Not that there's anything wrong with that.&nbsp;&nbsp;Why not? Do you really think that just because D&amp;D is a team game, that means certain classes must be relegated to support status? You really need to get out more, if that's the case.&nbsp;&nbsp;OH NO, MAJERE JUST CALLED ME SELFISH. I AM CUT TO THE DEATH. I MUST NOW KILL MYSELF, OR MAYBE NOT.&nbsp;&nbsp;Go right ahead and cast divine favour, divine power and righteous might on the fighter. I'll be waiting.&nbsp;Hmm. On second thoughts, cancel that waiting business.&nbsp;&nbsp;What planet _are_ you on?&nbsp;&nbsp;Right. And somehow you've failed to notice that your own words give the lie to your argument: &quot;reduced to healing monkeys&quot;. In other words, the best part of playing a cleric is not in selflessly giving up the spotlight to everyone else, but in stepping up and laying down the smack yourself. Do you make a career out of proving other people's points for them, or is it just a hobby?&nbsp;&nbsp;Sure, sure. And your TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS is bigger than mine. Whatever.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course you are. How convenient that you're also not playing the party medic.&nbsp;&nbsp;Of course you are. That's why you need 3 clerics, just to buff one guy.&nbsp;&nbsp;Hello in there. Read what I wrote. Then stop arguing with yourself, before you go blind.&nbsp;&nbsp;An 18th level spellcaster can also easily have save DCs in the mid to high-20s, even after Spell Focus has been nerfed. OTOH, if you're fighting things that are APL +5-10, do not expect to have an easy time with saves. You did, of course know this. Or perhaps not, given your statements thus far.&nbsp;&nbsp; SR of 11 + HD. Just because something has SR does not make it &quot;immune to high-level magic&quot;, especially if you're talking about mook-level foes.&nbsp;&nbsp;A _mob_ of golems? Now you're just trolling.&nbsp;&nbsp;The top of your head is pointy indeed, if those are the best examples you can think of.&nbsp;&nbsp;I'm having great difficulty parsing this sentence as anything resembling English. Care to try again?&nbsp;And just because I'm nice, and want to give you another chance to respond to certain statements that were made about monks, I'll repeat them here.Clue for the clueless: it is, in fact, possible for a class to be a bad design. This happens when its design precedents lead to the expectation that it should be able to do certain things, but its actual mechanics fail to deliver. This has nothing at all to do with the player, except if you think people are stupid for actually believing those precedents might have something to do with the game. In which case you should perhaps go back to playing chess.Multiple stat dependency. &nbsp;Weapon enchantments.Why don't you play the monk, and go around saving other people's lives?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="hong, post: 1474601, member: 537"] I am listening to you perfectly well. I am also finding that what you say is perfectly stupid. Not that there's anything wrong with that. Why not? Do you really think that just because D&D is a team game, that means certain classes must be relegated to support status? You really need to get out more, if that's the case. OH NO, MAJERE JUST CALLED ME SELFISH. I AM CUT TO THE DEATH. I MUST NOW KILL MYSELF, OR MAYBE NOT. Go right ahead and cast divine favour, divine power and righteous might on the fighter. I'll be waiting. Hmm. On second thoughts, cancel that waiting business. What planet _are_ you on? Right. And somehow you've failed to notice that your own words give the lie to your argument: "reduced to healing monkeys". In other words, the best part of playing a cleric is not in selflessly giving up the spotlight to everyone else, but in stepping up and laying down the smack yourself. Do you make a career out of proving other people's points for them, or is it just a hobby? Sure, sure. And your TEN-INCH TITANIUM PENIS is bigger than mine. Whatever. Of course you are. How convenient that you're also not playing the party medic. Of course you are. That's why you need 3 clerics, just to buff one guy. Hello in there. Read what I wrote. Then stop arguing with yourself, before you go blind. An 18th level spellcaster can also easily have save DCs in the mid to high-20s, even after Spell Focus has been nerfed. OTOH, if you're fighting things that are APL +5-10, do not expect to have an easy time with saves. You did, of course know this. Or perhaps not, given your statements thus far. SR of 11 + HD. Just because something has SR does not make it "immune to high-level magic", especially if you're talking about mook-level foes. A _mob_ of golems? Now you're just trolling. The top of your head is pointy indeed, if those are the best examples you can think of. I'm having great difficulty parsing this sentence as anything resembling English. Care to try again? And just because I'm nice, and want to give you another chance to respond to certain statements that were made about monks, I'll repeat them here. Clue for the clueless: it is, in fact, possible for a class to be a bad design. This happens when its design precedents lead to the expectation that it should be able to do certain things, but its actual mechanics fail to deliver. This has nothing at all to do with the player, except if you think people are stupid for actually believing those precedents might have something to do with the game. In which case you should perhaps go back to playing chess. Multiple stat dependency. Weapon enchantments. Why don't you play the monk, and go around saving other people's lives? [/QUOTE]

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