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<blockquote data-quote="two" data-source="post: 1475936" data-attributes="member: 9002">Except you have not shown that a monk has better &quot;defenses&quot;, particularly in point-buy-land.&nbsp; Except of course for saves.&nbsp; Monks DO have nice saves.AC?&nbsp; Usually very sub-par, barring scintillating stats and high-money campaign.Typical Level 4 Monk, with Dex=16, Wis=16 (20 point buy points) = AC 16.Typical Level 4 Barbarian with Dex 12 + breastplate = AC=16.&nbsp; (note relatively low dex here).&nbsp; Point buy cost = 4.Cheaper for the Barb to up this AC than the monk (armor bonuses are cheap).Any other 2nd- or 1st-tier fighter class has well in excess of AC=16 at 4th level, pre-magic.&nbsp; Cleric will have AC 18 with armor+shield, rogue ac=17 with chain shirt+dex, etc. etc.&nbsp; Typically.Monks have lower hitpoints too, and a monk spending 20 points on a 16 dex, 16 wis has little left over for strength and CON.&nbsp; So, very low AC, pretty low hitpoints.&nbsp; Good saves and maneuverability.&nbsp; This is worth giving up BAB, weapon damage, etc. ?How does this monk have &quot;good&quot; defenses, barring saves?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="two, post: 1475936, member: 9002"] Except you have not shown that a monk has better "defenses", particularly in point-buy-land. Except of course for saves. Monks DO have nice saves. AC? Usually very sub-par, barring scintillating stats and high-money campaign. Typical Level 4 Monk, with Dex=16, Wis=16 (20 point buy points) = AC 16. Typical Level 4 Barbarian with Dex 12 + breastplate = AC=16. (note relatively low dex here). Point buy cost = 4. Cheaper for the Barb to up this AC than the monk (armor bonuses are cheap). Any other 2nd- or 1st-tier fighter class has well in excess of AC=16 at 4th level, pre-magic. Cleric will have AC 18 with armor+shield, rogue ac=17 with chain shirt+dex, etc. etc. Typically. Monks have lower hitpoints too, and a monk spending 20 points on a 16 dex, 16 wis has little left over for strength and CON. So, very low AC, pretty low hitpoints. Good saves and maneuverability. This is worth giving up BAB, weapon damage, etc. ? How does this monk have "good" defenses, barring saves? [/QUOTE]

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