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<blockquote data-quote="CPXB" data-source="post: 1477653" data-attributes="member: 17233">It just seems to me that all the monk variant classes are very shy about giving enough class features to actually make going unarmed worth it offensively or defensively.&nbsp; Probably to avoid people going, &quot;Wow!&nbsp; Those class features are way better than a fighters!&quot;&nbsp; Yeah.I had this discussion with my GM.&nbsp; After our tweaks, my monk had more bonus feats than a fighter of the same level would have.&nbsp; I shrugged and said, &quot;And a fighter would be wearing full plate armor, be carrying a large shield and a magic sword -- for which he would have specialization.&quot;&nbsp; I said I would be more than happy to stat out a sixth level fighter for purposes of comparison, but since I had already shown her Pally the Paladin she conceded that, even with more feats, my monk was an inferior fighter to a sixth level fighter.I think, when people are redesigning the monk, they just aren't letting the numbers speak for themselves.&nbsp; They look at the list of class features it would take to make a monk as good as a paladin (not a fighter, but a paladin) and since it seemed so . . . well, large, they shied away from doing it.&nbsp; Thus sorta perpetrating the problem.I mean, I *seriously* looked at your character class.&nbsp; My DM would have had precisely zero problem with me remaking Rashad as a martial artist from your page, or a Midnight defender, but I looked at what was actually being offered and went, &quot;Huh, sort of a lateral move.&quot;</blockquote>

[QUOTE="CPXB, post: 1477653, member: 17233"] It just seems to me that all the monk variant classes are very shy about giving enough class features to actually make going unarmed worth it offensively or defensively. Probably to avoid people going, "Wow! Those class features are way better than a fighters!" Yeah. I had this discussion with my GM. After our tweaks, my monk had more bonus feats than a fighter of the same level would have. I shrugged and said, "And a fighter would be wearing full plate armor, be carrying a large shield and a magic sword -- for which he would have specialization." I said I would be more than happy to stat out a sixth level fighter for purposes of comparison, but since I had already shown her Pally the Paladin she conceded that, even with more feats, my monk was an inferior fighter to a sixth level fighter. I think, when people are redesigning the monk, they just aren't letting the numbers speak for themselves. They look at the list of class features it would take to make a monk as good as a paladin (not a fighter, but a paladin) and since it seemed so . . . well, large, they shied away from doing it. Thus sorta perpetrating the problem. I mean, I *seriously* looked at your character class. My DM would have had precisely zero problem with me remaking Rashad as a martial artist from your page, or a Midnight defender, but I looked at what was actually being offered and went, "Huh, sort of a lateral move." [/QUOTE]

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